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Old 09-11-2019, 08:59 AM   #5461
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Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch View Post
I've sent the question off to my MP, just to see if I get an answer.



Of course it will be partisan if its responded to. I don't want to derail, I'm not a constitutional lawyer, or an expert on parlimentary procedures, and I know that there are people here who are a hell of a lot smarter then and more educated then me.


I'm going off of the previous waivings of confidentiality and off of the opinions (admittedly social media sources) who have been in political reporting for a lot longer then I've been sentient.


Even if Scheer wins the election and starts an investigation, Trudeau would still have to waive confidentiality
This is quite a good article regarding s. 39 of the CEA and cabinet confidentiality (for anyone who is really interested in this stuff):

https://www.erudit.org/en/journals/r.../1042926ar.pdf
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:04 AM   #5462
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I'm not sure that would be worth any votes. People who feel that way are already voting for Scheer. That's what he doesn't get, he needs to appeal to more Canadians, not just his base.

At the end of the day, Scheer has to be able to defend his platform, and sell it, which can be really tough.


We know the Libs will go after it hard, we know the Greens and the NDP will go after his climate change platform hard.


Here's what we're going to see.


Trudeau - Defend his record on the economy, which looks rosy right now though there are trouble signs (dropped investments, dropped exports, the latest employment numbers were mostly part time jobs, and covered for a big drop in full time jobs).



Defend his foreign policy which has been a picture of blunders



He'd got to defend his climate plan that was slammed by the UN as not being effective.


Balance his voter pool when it comes to Indigenous reconcilliation and the TMX



Defend his record on ethics.


Scheer - Defend his platform, especially around killing the carbon tax and his climate plan. Prove that he's not a radical wing nut who's going to outlaw abortion and gay rights. As well he has to develop a thick skin against personal attacks.



May - has to be more then just a climate pony, has to have a well rounded platform, and survive scrutiny when her economic plan comes out. She's getting attacked now in terms of things like the abortion issues, as well as her statement about killing TMX and have more to say then bellowing "Good jobs Green Jobs", what's her plan? She's also got to control her message outside of the environment. Her star candidate in Quebec didn't help nor did the party clarification.


Singh - I don't even know. He's got to show a good platform, he's got to do really well in the debate which means he can't look like a lost 5th grader during it. Out of every candidate out there he's not only got to win over voters that have left, but win over his party.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:11 AM   #5463
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1171798604400484352


Just as an FYI. Trudeau isn't saying he can't waive, he's saying he won't waive and leaves it to the PCO.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:13 AM   #5464
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Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch View Post
https://twitter.com/user/status/1171798604400484352


Just as an FYI. Trudeau isn't saying he can't waive, he's saying he won't waive and leaves it to the PCO.
Well, as many on here are quick to point out, I'm not at all convinced Trudeau understands the complexities of parliamentary procedure or evidence law either. He's not particularly sophisticated.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:32 AM   #5465
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Add on, Trudeau didn't do well when he was grilled on Quebec Bill 21. He came across as I don't like it, but I'm not going to intervene in it.


So the Bloc is now going to use the line "If he wins, the bad federals are going to intervene in the business of this province.



I know there is support in Quebec for Bill 21, that thing is a briar patch. If he doesn't intervene he looks to the ROC like he's playing politics on a racist issue. If he does, he loses support in Quebec.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:38 AM   #5466
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Originally Posted by Makarov View Post
Well, as many on here are quick to point out, I'm not at all convinced Trudeau understands the complexities of parliamentary procedure or evidence law either. He's not particularly sophisticated.

Fair enough, I'm not going to debate it, I'm not smart enough to do that. I'll leave it to the experts.


Just for people that want to follow along.


Mercedes Stephenson, Robert Fife Tonda McCharles, Evan Soloman, Don Martin, Susan Delacourt, Chantel Hebert, Althia Raj Andrew Coyne and Rosemary Barton are all good sources.


The usual sites, CBC, CTV, Global Huff post Canada, National Post and Globe and Mail are positive follows. National News watch is a must follow for news alerts.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:45 AM   #5467
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Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch View Post
Fair enough, I'm not going to debate it, I'm not smart enough to do that. I'll leave it to the experts.


Just for people that want to follow along.


Mercedes Stephenson, Robert Fife Tonda McCharles, Evan Soloman, Don Martin, Susan Delacourt, Chantel Hebert, Althia Raj Andrew Coyne and Rosemary Barton are all good sources.


The usual sites, CBC, CTV, Global Huff post Canada, National Post and Globe and Mail are positive follows. National News watch is a must follow for news alerts.
Yeah, I am by no means an expert either. I don't want to derail the thread any further on this fairly narrow issue.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:47 AM   #5468
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Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch View Post
https://twitter.com/user/status/1171798604400484352


Just as an FYI. Trudeau isn't saying he can't waive, he's saying he won't waive and leaves it to the PCO.
Quote:
says he has given most expansive waiver of cabinet confidence ever
Is he using Trump speak now??
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:20 AM   #5469
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Elizabeth May declares war in her opening statement


https://twitter.com/user/status/1171816307211325445
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:25 AM   #5470
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Anyway, not sure the distinction is ultimately all that important. Would it be inappropriate for the Prime Minister to direct the Clerk of the Privy Council to certify or de-certify information as confidential? I honestly don't know.
The immediate question that I had, and I recognize that it's probably academic and we'll never find out in this instance, is whether the use of s.39 in a circumstance where the primary intent is political shelter would itself constitute obstruction of justice.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:27 AM   #5471
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If I were Scheer I’d announce that “when you vote me in, I’ll open the investigation and have Trudeau thrown in jail”

You’d probably win votes from people who want to see that

Edit: not even sure he has the power to do that.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:30 AM   #5472
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This isn't really similar to the Hillary email situation. The independent authorities in that case concluded that no further investigation was necessary. The authorities in this case are being prevented from carrying out an investigation that they (presumably, given that they started it) believe to be necessary. The "throw him in jail" party is speculative, but the RCMP should be given every opportunity to complete its investigation with full access to all of the information required to do so, so any party that agrees with that (and I assume the NDP and Greens would aso well), I'm behind.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:37 AM   #5473
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Man, you must be a hit at parties.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:38 AM   #5474
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1171822801172533248


https://twitter.com/user/status/1171822932320014336


https://twitter.com/user/status/1171823129733271552
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:41 AM   #5475
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Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague View Post
The immediate question that I had, and I recognize that it's probably academic and we'll never find out in this instance, is whether the use of s.39 in a circumstance where the primary intent is political shelter would itself constitute obstruction of justice.
Additionally, the SCC in Babcock was clear that the Clerk must exercise his or her statutory powers on s. 39 in good faith and for the purpose of protecting Cabinet confidences in the public interest (and not to thwart public inquiry or to gain tactical advantage in litigation). It would be fascinating to see the RCMP challenge the Clerk's decision by way of judicial review.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:42 AM   #5476
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Additionally, the SCC in Babcock was clear that the Clerk must exercise his or her statutory powers on s. 39 in good faith and for the purpose of protecting Cabinet confidences in the public interest (and not to thwart public inquiry or to gain tactical advantage in litigation). It would be fascinating to see the RCMP challenge the Clerk's decision by way of judicial review.
And if you did, and sought production of the record, wouldn't they just preclude all access to all of the information on which the decision is based and leave the Court in no position to be able to assess its reasonableness? Otherwise, you'd just be doing an end run around the confidentiality by applying for a JR. I guess you could get a sealing order, but on some level at least, the cat would be out of the bag. "Gee, really not sure how that got leaked to the Globe and Mail. Wasn't us though".
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Man, you must be a hit at parties.
People keep saying that when someone pours water on some silly over the top provocative nonsense in a political thread, and I honestly don't know what it means. So I guess not then?

Who are these people who are "hits" at parties? When was the last time you went to a party and walked away thinking, "wow, that Bob guy was a real hit!" What does someone need to do in order to be a "hit" at a party? Stand up comedy? Dance on a table? Is this some socialite thing, where the point of a social gathering to impress the other attendees? I'm genuinely curious.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:46 AM   #5477
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Who are these people who are "hits" at parties?
It's definitely not the "well actually" dudes, that's for sure.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:48 AM   #5478
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It's definitely not the "well actually" dudes, that's for sure.
I suspect most of the people who are willing to correct others in the context of an online political conversation aren't prone to doing so in the context of having a beer with friends, but even leaving that aside, it's still a super weird thing to say.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:48 AM   #5479
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And if you did, and sought production of the record, wouldn't they just preclude all access to all of the information on which the decision is based and leave the Court in no position to be able to assess its reasonableness? Otherwise, you'd just be doing an end run around the confidentiality by applying for a JR. I guess you could get a sealing order, but on some level at least, the cat would be out of the bag. "Gee, really not sure how that got leaked to the Globe and Mail. Wasn't us though".
I think that is an issue discussed in Babcock. I presume challenges would be dealt with similar to how challenges to claims of solicitor-client privilege are dealt with? Its a difficult balancing act, no doubt.

It is entirely possible that the information in this case was certified confidential for legitimate public interest reasons (and not for political expediency or cover-up).

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Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague View Post
People keep saying that when someone pours water on some silly over the top provocative nonsense in a political thread, and I honestly don't know what it means. So I guess not then?

Who are these people who are "hits" at parties? When was the last time you went to a party and walked away thinking, "wow, that Bob guy was a real hit!" What does someone need to do in order to be a "hit" at a party? Stand up comedy? Dance on a table? Is this some socialite thing, where the point of a social gathering to impress the other attendees? I'm genuinely curious.

FYI:

https://medium.com/@Five_By_Five/par...y-59384b84996f
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:50 AM   #5480
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Who are these people who are "hits" at parties? When was the last time you went to a party and walked away thinking, "wow, that Bob guy was a real hit!" What does someone need to do in order to be a "hit" at a party? Stand up comedy? Dance on a table? Is this some socialite thing, where the point of a social gathering to impress the other attendees? I'm genuinely curious.
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