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Old 03-07-2019, 05:15 PM   #201
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I'm not defending Lowe. Don't like him.

I'm saying that the idea that Lowe lied to Pronger when they traded for him is just something someone made up here.

It has no traction anywhere else.
I dont think thats it, I've read that Lowe lied to Pronger when he extended him rather than when he acquired him.
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Old 03-07-2019, 05:22 PM   #202
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I dont think thats it, I've read that Lowe lied to Pronger when he extended him rather than when he acquired him.
Yeah. I've only read that here.

I'm not sure what anyone thinks he could have possibly lied about though.

Did he tell Pronger's wife that the average temp in the winter was 15 degrees C?
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Old 03-07-2019, 05:29 PM   #203
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Did he tell Pronger's wife that the average temp in the winter was 15 degrees C?
Probably.
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Old 03-07-2019, 05:30 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Oil Stain View Post
Yeah. I've only read that here.

I'm not sure what anyone thinks he could have possibly lied about though.

Did he tell Pronger's wife that the average temp in the winter was 15 degrees C?
You guys are still talking about Lowe? I think it's pretty obvious what he'd be lying about.

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"I was shocked it was Edmonton," Pronger said. "I knew [the Blues] were trying to trade me, and my agent had told me the handful of teams that were kind of in the running. And at no point did Edmonton ever come up. Ever. And then out of the blue I get a call to say I was traded to Edmonton, I said, 'I'm sorry, what?' But you know, it was a young team with promise, certainly that was the sell. I certainly enjoyed playing there with those guys, we went on that run. It was a heartbreaker in Game 7."

Said Lowe: "I wish he had been around longer. But he was a hell of a player for us."
I think the bolded right there offers up multiple opportunities for a lie.

But considering he asked for a trade from Edmonton, I'm sure we could spend days coming up with all the lies Lowe could have possibly told to keep him and his wife there.

I'm not sure if you've been paying attention, but intellectual honesty hasn't been too common up there - and that turns into dishonesty very quickly. When it came to keeping Pronger, I'm sure that Lowe had a lot of lofty stories of the present and future he liked to tell.
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Old 03-07-2019, 05:48 PM   #205
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I know it's an E=NG thread but repeatedly calling someone who was responsible for a car crash that ended up in someone's death a "murderer" makes me cringe. The fact that he drove impaired with such awful consequences is worthy of condemnation but it is not equivalent to murder.
‘Awful consequences’ is a pretty cringeworthy way to describe vehicular homicide.
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Old 03-07-2019, 05:55 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Oil Stain View Post
Yeah. I've only read that here.

I'm not sure what anyone thinks he could have possibly lied about though.

Did he tell Pronger's wife that the average temp in the winter was 15 degrees C?
Lowe lied about the team he was going to have assembled around him.

A guy I completely trust's colleagues golfed with the Neidermeyers that summer...late July in Cranbrook or Kimberley. Flames, Oilers and Ducks in the mix as he still hasn't signed. Oilers then Flames, then Ducks were the salary rankings. Scott took a call from Lowe (who had to wait for him to make a putt) checking in, and telling Neidermeyer that he had a big acquisition in the bag, to be announced in a few days, but couldn't say who, and had another deal he was in the middle of that would make three top talents on the Oilers if he joined, and hoped that this knowledge would by Scott over the edge to sign there too.

Scott a few days later signed with ANA mainly becuase they were also signing Rob to the same term, though Scott preferred Calgary if all things were equal. Same day the Pronger deal was announced.

What do you think the call to Pronger was in advance if the trade to convince him to waive and then signing term? That the Oilers were getting two premier players imminently, just like the story Neidermeyer got.

Pronger gets to camp and he's playing with Cory Cross and Igor Ulanov and other schlubs. The other two deals that he was promised to occur were magic dust or long shots at best and Lowe knew it. Pronger asked for a trade before Christmas that year.

Oilstain doesn't have to believe anything, but I trust my source about that golf game, and Lowe's comments, and admittedly it's not nearly as salicious as the Edmonton media (which is the only place I've heard that story, if you want to play that game) story about him banging the local weather girl and getting her pregnant. Pronger got sold something that wasn't real and fell for it huge. So did Pat Quinn and Renney a couple years later.

Perron came and left quietly (though he had some comments) . Erik Cole, same thing. Lowe can spin a yarn get players excited. Nylander, Heatley and countless others in the past decade have since caught wind of Lowe's tactics and the Oilers way of doing business, and avoided there before getting stuck for a year or more of their career.
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Old 03-07-2019, 06:08 PM   #207
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^ Sounds like a guy who knows a thing or two about winning to me
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Old 03-07-2019, 06:31 PM   #208
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Yeah, thats crazy. And that he made his way back into Pro Sports and went on to have a lucrative career as a player and manager.
Wow the Oilers are more like the Clevland Browns (minus the way more winning) than I thought.

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Old 03-07-2019, 06:38 PM   #209
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Pronger gets to camp and he's playing with Cory Cross and Igor Ulanov and other schlubs.
You just can't replace a Cory Cross.
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Old 03-07-2019, 07:40 PM   #210
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^ Sounds like a guy who knows a thing or two about winning to me
You're right. Niedermeyer did know a lot about winning.
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Old 03-08-2019, 03:02 AM   #211
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Scott took a call from Lowe (who had to wait for him to make a putt) checking in, and telling Neidermeyer that he had a big acquisition in the bag, to be announced in a few days, but couldn't say who, and had another deal he was in the middle of that would make three top talents on the Oilers if he joined, and hoped that this knowledge would by Scott over the edge to sign there too.
What do you think the call to Pronger was in advance if the trade to convince him to waive and then signing term? That the Oilers were getting two premier players imminently, just like the story Neidermeyer got. .
Lowe landed Pronger and Peca around that time.

Both were big names at the time.

So that would be the two premiere players with Scott being the third.

Where's the lie there?
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:20 AM   #212
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How hard must it be to convince someone to actually sign in Edmonton?

I mean, what is the pitch, actually?

It literally can only come down to them overpaying. That is the only reason. There are no other selling points.
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:41 AM   #213
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Lowe landed Pronger and Peca around that time.

Both were big names at the time.

So that would be the two premiere players with Scott being the third.

Where's the lie there?
Yeah, I'm with you.

I think Lowe is a clown, a terrible GM, arrogant and basically has destroyed the franchise but I don't think he lied to Pronger.

Pronger, Peca, Nieds were the big three. That seems legit.
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:23 AM   #214
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Okay, tragic fatal consequences then. We don't use the term "vehicular homicide" in Canada. It's "dangerous driving causing death" which is a lot more accurate.

Most posters think that it's inappropriate that the injury caused by a dangerous play in the NHL affects length of suspension. Apply the same logic to someone involved in a fatal accident while impaired.

Not only is it not premeditated, there's no intent at all. We're punishing the consequences of being reckless in driving while impaired. Same culpability and mental fault as when you get home driving drunk without incident, just much more serious consequences.

The act deserves moral condemnation but when you equate it to someone intentionally taking someone else's life, you're blurring a rather enormous distinction.

Anyway, way off track on the thread. I'm no fan of McTavish as a person, a coach, or a GM. The fact that the Oilers see him as such an integral piece of the organization says a lot about them.
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:29 AM   #215
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How hard must it be to convince someone to actually sign in Edmonton?

I mean, what is the pitch, actually?

It literally can only come down to them overpaying. That is the only reason. There are no other selling points.
Incredibly difficult. They keep getting reprieves every time they draft a "generational" talent. They can trot out the "you get to play with Hall/Eberle/Hopkins/McDavid and we've turned a corner" only so long.

With failure still following 4 seasons after drafting the most talented player since Crosby it's not going to get any easier.
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:40 AM   #216
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Oilers win a few and out comes some oil fans! Clockwork
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:44 AM   #217
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Oilers win a few and out comes some oil fans! Clockwork


It’s amazing really, no shame


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Old 03-08-2019, 12:11 PM   #218
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Okay, tragic fatal consequences then. We don't use the term "vehicular homicide" in Canada. It's "dangerous driving causing death" which is a lot more accurate.

Most posters think that it's inappropriate that the injury caused by a dangerous play in the NHL affects length of suspension. Apply the same logic to someone involved in a fatal accident while impaired.

Not only is it not premeditated, there's no intent at all. We're punishing the consequences of being reckless in driving while impaired. Same culpability and mental fault as when you get home driving drunk without incident, just much more serious consequences.

The act deserves moral condemnation but when you equate it to someone intentionally taking someone else's life, you're blurring a rather enormous distinction.

Anyway, way off track on the thread. I'm no fan of McTavish as a person, a coach, or a GM. The fact that the Oilers see him as such an integral piece of the organization says a lot about them.
I don't disagree with what you're saying, but when I call him a 'murderer' I'm looking to use the harshest word I can to condemn his negligent decision resulting in death.

As an example, what would you call that girl who tossed a chair off the balcony in Toronto if that chair killed someone? The courts and journalists would legally have to refer to her only by the legal sentence - but by all accounts, she's a 'murderer' to me until we need to be politically or legally correct.

Intent is all that changes the definition of the action. The carelessness of each act is in itself a purposeful disregard human life to me though - or an intent to not care for human life, if you will. If anything, the willingness to kill anyone that gets in the way of your car or chair is in it's own way just as sick (or more sick?) than someone who wanted one specific person dead. That it could be a child, a family or anyone else doesn't matter to these people. You're right that the use of 'murderer' is incorrect by definition, but by sentiment I think it fits. I don't think that the distinction needs to be all that blurry in a lot of cases.


All that being said, it fits but it's also shocking that Edmonton was potentially calling this guy in jail to see if he'd like to come play some hockey. Once that pesky sentence is out of the way that is...
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Old 03-08-2019, 12:18 PM   #219
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Until this group of Oiler players can actually play well when the games matter this win streak is really meaningless. Frankly the oilers knew they were out of it and they're playing all loose goose and relaxed.


But leading up to this little streak of their's they were a terrible team.


The terrible team is closer to the truth.



At the end of the day, they're 8 points out with the tie breaker going against them. They're done and they know it.
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Old 03-08-2019, 12:27 PM   #220
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Leafs are gonna demolish them tomorrow.
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