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Old 09-19-2019, 01:41 PM   #4081
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I know my choice, and it isnt cause I think Brodie sucks. It's because we have players with similar skillsets in Hanifin and Kylington.
This has always been my rationale as well. Though Andersson is developing some Hamonic style play.

Part of it may well depend on other teams' needs. Plus Brodie has a NTC. Hamonic doesn't.
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Old 09-19-2019, 01:42 PM   #4082
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I don't know. I like Brodie. I just can't remember thinking "look at how Gio made that play because of Brodie". I just think Gio helps Brodie a lot more than vice versa.
There are a lot of plays where Brodie orchestrates the breakout and Gio leaks out. These don't happen with other D including Hamilton or Andersson as the breakout is more generic.

There are also a lot of plays where Brodie gets the puck on the right point and then instead of a generic shot (which is what both Hamilton and Andersson would do) he walks the line and finds Giordano flashing down low.

I'm not saying Brodie is exclusively responsible for Gio's career year, obviously the PP and team depth played a big part, but it's pretty clear Giordano's offense is more dynamic when he plays with Brodie, whereas he's more of a generic gunner with other partners.

Brodie is also one of the best shot suppression defensemen in thr NHL, and this has been quantifably true with other partners, not just Giordano. When that happens it gives Giordano a lot more energy at the other end. Brodie's shot suppression is simply elite.
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Old 09-19-2019, 02:51 PM   #4083
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There are a lot of plays where Brodie orchestrates the breakout and Gio leaks out. These don't happen with other D including Hamilton or Andersson as the breakout is more generic.

There are also a lot of plays where Brodie gets the puck on the right point and then instead of a generic shot (which is what both Hamilton and Andersson would do) he walks the line and finds Giordano flashing down low.

I'm not saying Brodie is exclusively responsible for Gio's career year, obviously the PP and team depth played a big part, but it's pretty clear Giordano's offense is more dynamic when he plays with Brodie, whereas he's more of a generic gunner with other partners.

Brodie is also one of the best shot suppression defensemen in thr NHL, and this has been quantifably true with other partners, not just Giordano. When that happens it gives Giordano a lot more energy at the other end. Brodie's shot suppression is simply elite.
The issue is the once every 4 game brain-fart that ends up in the back of the net. Its glaring and people notice it. The problem is all the little things he does right people do not notice.
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Old 09-19-2019, 02:56 PM   #4084
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The issue is the once every 4 game brain-fart that ends up in the back of the net. Its glaring and people notice it. The problem is all the little things he does right people do not notice.
Well another part of the issue is that people are looking for it even when it isnít there.

Go in a game thread when a puck takes a weird bounce and hops over his stick. Happens to everyone but when itís him, the histrionics in there are silly.
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Old 09-19-2019, 05:20 PM   #4085
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Well another part of the issue is that people are looking for it even when it isnít there.

Go in a game thread when a puck takes a weird bounce and hops over his stick. Happens to everyone but when itís him, the histrionics in there are silly.
No doubt this is true. I find myself right in the middle about Brodie. I can't say he's the wind beneath Gio's wings. But he's a very good defenceman with some close to elite attributes.

It's his contract and Calgary's cap situation combined with Tkachuk's deal situation which makes him trade bait, and its his quality which makes him a commodity some team would want. I agree that Hamonic is also an option, but like some have said, who is more unique on this team - Hamonic or Brodie? IMO Valimaki and Kylington fill Brodies shoes a bit more nealty than Hamonic's (though like I said, Andersson is getting more like Hamonic as time goes on, only chirpier).
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Old 09-19-2019, 05:37 PM   #4086
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Well, either someone has to go to make room for the new cap king or he waits it out. I think losing a dman we are going to lose regardless is the least painful option. We are a better team with chuckles on it than off it. We can live without Brodie, give opportunities to some extremely talented young defensemen. Or, keep Brodie and not have as dynamic presence on offense.

Either or.

I don't think Treliving can live so tight to the cap by just squeezing a penny here and there moving the Czarniks of the roster to barely get a signed Tkachuk under the cap. He's going to want flexibility too.

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Old 09-19-2019, 06:20 PM   #4087
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Well, either someone has to go to make room for the new cap king or he waits it out. I think losing a dman we are going to lose regardless is the least painful option. We are a better team with chuckles on it than off it. We can live without Brodie, give opportunities to some extremely talented young defensemen. Or, keep Brodie and not have as dynamic presence on offense.

Either or.

I don't think Treliving can live so tight to the cap by just squeezing a penny here and there moving the Czarniks of the roster to barely get a signed Tkachuk under the cap. He's going to want flexibility too.
it's not either/or though.

No question that having Tkachuk in the lineup is better than not. However, it is not a given than having him in it means not having Brodie. Moving Frolik is less damaging to the lineup than moving Brodie, as one example.
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Old 09-19-2019, 06:24 PM   #4088
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it's not either/or though.

No question that having Tkachuk in the lineup is better than not. However, it is not a given than having him in it means not having Brodie. Moving Frolik is less damaging to the lineup than moving Brodie, as one example.
If you read the fist sentence of my post...

Whichever. The point remains some cap has to be moved and not in small increments. Whether it be Frolik or Brodie, its still either or. Cut one of the two or both pending UFAs or have chuckles sit. I chose Brodie as we have players ready to take on bigger roles.

Unless treliving comes up with another rabbit out of his hat and comes at it from a completely different angle. Who knows.

All I know is, if Brodie is moved i think the team isn't taking as bad a hit as not having Tkachuk play.
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Old 09-19-2019, 06:28 PM   #4089
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it's not either/or though.

No question that having Tkachuk in the lineup is better than not. However, it is not a given than having him in it means not having Brodie. Moving Frolik is less damaging to the lineup than moving Brodie, as one example.
Except, Brodie is going to be a UFA after this year and most certainly is going to want more money where Frolik I believe is maxed out and if anything, will probably get the same money or less on his next contract. I believe trading Brodie with a full year of his contract is going to be more valuable than trading him going into UFA status after the year is up or possibly loosing him to free agency for nothing.
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Old 09-20-2019, 09:25 AM   #4090
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Except, Brodie is going to be a UFA after this year and most certainly is going to want more money where Frolik I believe is maxed out and if anything, will probably get the same money or less on his next contract. I believe trading Brodie with a full year of his contract is going to be more valuable than trading him going into UFA status after the year is up or possibly loosing him to free agency for nothing.
The Flames are a contender. The kind of team that trades first round picks at the trade deadline to acquire dynamic top-of-lineup players like TJ Brodie, who are typically pending UFAs. Look at what the Sharks gave up for one (bad) year of Karlsson. What the Blue Jackets gave up for a few months of Duchene. What the Jets gave up for Hayes. None of these players signed an immediate extension.

Even if, hypothetically, Brodie exits as a UFA for greater pay (which is an assumption, not a fact rooted in evidence), the ability to keep our major draft picks is far more valuable than any other form of asset managemeng.

Frolik is a cap casualty not only because it is widely believed that he has very little value-added over players like Bennett, Mangiapane, Dube, but because his typical performance does not match or exceed the level expected of his current cap hit. Brodie, at his current cap hit, is easily outperformimg such performance evaluations.

Would you rather have a #2D @ 4.65M or a #~7F @ 4.3M?

Being a pending UFA should not wipe away the value going into the current season, one in which the Stanley Cup should be a realistically obtainable goal. A player of Brodie's caliber would cost us a first at the deadline. A player of Frolik's caliber would be a lot closer to a 3rd.
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Old 09-20-2019, 09:37 AM   #4091
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So much depends on how one values Brodie. $4.65mm for a #2D is fantastic value. $4.65mm for a #6, not so much.

You mention that the hypothetical UFA Brodie at greater pay is an assumption not rooted in evidence, but then assume he is a #2. How much is a #2D UFA worth in your opinion?
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Old 09-20-2019, 09:44 AM   #4092
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You mention that the hypothetical UFA Brodie at greater pay is an assumption not rooted in evidence, but then assume he is a #2. How much is a #2D UFA worth in your opinion?
If money were the only factor, then a player of Brodie's caliber would expect ~7M on the open market.

However, there are factors that tell me Brodie would take a discount to stay somewhere he's played his whole career. Even when he signed his deal it was structured such that he never exceeded Giordano's salary. The Flames are a cup contender. Additionally term will be another factor, and if he signs for more term it may cost less in terms of AAV.

What Brodie would cost the Flames is not necessarily what Brodie would command on the open market. But we won't know what happens until it happens - making up scenarios of him going to the highest bidder a year out from now still ignores the current season.

And anyone who thinks TJ Brodie is a #6D, is an idiot.
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Old 09-20-2019, 09:49 AM   #4093
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Re moving frolik or Brodie to make cap space. You trade the guy who offers the least on the ice when you are in the playoffs. Pretty obvious that is frolik. He plays small and is easily pushed to the fringes in playoff hockey.

Regardless of what you think of his overall skill, Brodie is infinitely more valuable to this team in a playoff run this year
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Old 09-20-2019, 10:15 AM   #4094
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If money were the only factor, then a player of Brodie's caliber would expect ~7M on the open market.

However, there are factors that tell me Brodie would take a discount to stay somewhere he's played his whole career. Even when he signed his deal it was structured such that he never exceeded Giordano's salary. The Flames are a cup contender. Additionally term will be another factor, and if he signs for more term it may cost less in terms of AAV.

What Brodie would cost the Flames is not necessarily what Brodie would command on the open market. But we won't know what happens until it happens - making up scenarios of him going to the highest bidder a year out from now still ignores the current season.

And anyone who thinks TJ Brodie is a #6D, is an idiot.
To be clear, I think Brodie has value. Any move should not be considered a salary cap dump. As a contender, the team should not be actively subtracting. But, I would hope that the factors telling you that Brodie would take a discount, are also telling Flames management. Get that deal done before he hits free agency, I would say.
On the Flames, I think there is a reasonable argument to suggest he will end up on the third pair. #5 as opposed to #6 to be fair, but the point still stands that he is not a lock on Gio's pair, based on utilization from late last year and the potential of Andersson to take another step. If Brodie is stuck on the third pair (with Valimaki coming back at some point), I just don't see how Brodie is thinking discount to stay in Calgary where he could maximize his earnings elsewhere. Other than "factors".
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Old 09-20-2019, 10:37 AM   #4095
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I don’t like the thought of the Flames losing high quality assets in free agency. It makes no sense for them to sign both Brodie and Hamonic long term as they shouldn’t be allocating more top $ to guys about to enter their 30’s and they have 4 really good/promising you Dmen.

One of Brodie or Hamonic should be moved and the other re-signed. Personally I think Hamonic makes more sense to keep as I think he will be cheaper, is a right shot, and brings a toughness element on the back end. He also seems to be incredibly valuable in the room and community.
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Old 09-21-2019, 06:14 AM   #4096
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I donít like the thought of the Flames losing high quality assets in free agency. It makes no sense for them to sign both Brodie and Hamonic long term as they shouldnít be allocating more top $ to guys about to enter their 30ís and they have 4 really good/promising you Dmen.

One of Brodie or Hamonic should be moved and the other re-signed. Personally I think Hamonic makes more sense to keep as I think he will be cheaper, is a right shot, and brings a toughness element on the back end. He also seems to be incredibly valuable in the room and community.
The Flames have three more years of their best players getting budget contracts. This is the window to go all in and try and win a cup. If you can trade away one of those players and improve your team then go for it. But the mind set should not be to sacrifice the quality of the team to avoid losing something to free agency. And I don't think it is likely the Flames can trade away a top 4 D and get better.
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Old 09-22-2019, 10:42 PM   #4097
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Talk in some other threads about moving Brodie for Cap space.... like which teams are taking on cap right now (more cap in then out) that are in a window to win....? Honest question. Other then a lateral Cap trade or getting a fair bit less in return, Im having trouble finding a trade partner but maybe Tre pulls a rabbit out of his hat (has been good at trades)

Im wondering if guys like Czarnik and Janko arent moved for pennies on the dollar. Czarnik even waived.

Frolik would have been moved by now if they could have.

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Old 09-23-2019, 09:04 AM   #4098
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Jets will be looking for help at defense, if Byfuglien sits out the whole year/retires. That could be a potential location for Brodie
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Old 09-23-2019, 09:13 AM   #4099
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Jets will be looking for help at defense, if Byfuglien sits out the whole year/retires. That could be a potential location for Brodie
By all accounts its not an "if" anymore.
Jets WILL need D help, significant help and will likely have to pay more than they can afford... doesn't bode well with both Laine & Connor requiring deals too.
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Old 09-23-2019, 09:14 AM   #4100
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Jets will be looking for help at defense, if Byfuglien sits out the whole year/retires. That could be a potential location for Brodie

The Jets have lost so much depth on the back end that I canít see Brodie being the difference maker there. And if they canít convince Laine to sign they likely pack it in, draft high, and re-tool next summer.
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