Systemic Racism in US and Canada

[Oling_Roachinen]

Were you not the same person in the last thread who called anyone racist if they 'victim blamed' by pointing out negative but true facts about the victims, and you are now going out on a whim to say that an Indigenous mother may have been a prostitute with drug problems?

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

We don't know that anything was being assumed though. If she was a prostitute, they may have had other encounters with her, as many prostitutes have drug problems.

As far as I know, she has never had legal issues.

According to her family, she was in there a month earlier and received similar treatment, and she lives in the area and has seven children, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that the nursing staff knew her for quite some time. The nurses made reference to her children during their verbal attack on her.

The internal investigation will answer a lot of questions.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Were you not the same person in the last thread who called anyone racist if they 'victim blamed' by pointing out negative but true facts about the victims, and you are now going out on a whim to say that an Indigenous mother may have been a prostitute with drug problems?

I wasn't blaming her, in fact I said they should be fired. Just pointing out the possibility that the reasoning for their behavior is other abhorrent issues in our society.

And in the situation you are bringing up, I called them out due to a pattern of that behavior, not just "anyone".

Perhaps before trying to call me out, you should actually read what the #### is said.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

According to her family, she was in there a month earlier and received similar treatment.

Yes, which is why she was recording in the first place.

And she's not the only Indigenous person who has made the same claims.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...quan-1.5745150

Over six months, he said he went five times and each time was told nothing was wrong then given pain medication and told to rest. He was often asked, he recalled, if he was on drugs.

At one point, Flamand said, he saw a white man at the hospital for his own back problem being treated with a degree of respect he had not been given.

"It showed me clearly that there was racism there," he said Wednesday.

After half a year of hardly being able to stand up, let alone walk, Flamand finally went to the hospital in Trois-Rivieres where he was taken in for emergency surgery for a herniated disc.

Part of the problem is nurses and other medical staff assuming Indigenous are on drugs, criminals, prostitutes, and the like (not that it should matter) and give them less attention or in some cases hinder them from getting the proper treatment. It's been documented lots that minorities are less likely to be prescribed opioids than their white counterparts.

[curves2000]

I think some posters might have only read a portion of my post or had some pre-conceived notions.

I am not suggesting that this wasn't a terrible act or that the video wasn't awful or that Quebec or this hospital doesn't have a race or racism. Every single thing that we have seen in this video show's bad, in every way shape or form. In my post I acknowledged racism, sexism and other discrimination in the health care system exists 100%, I am not denying that.

What I was just wondering, not really questioning or arguing is if this was specifically tied to race and if so, did I miss something in the news pieces I had seen. Although the video evidence and treatment of this patient is about as brutal as is possible, I have seen incidences, videos and stories of similar LEVELS of abuse and neglect in the health care system. I don't think this was an isolated incident to this hospital or this patient and can be a story told a thousand times from people of various backgrounds.

I agree Canada does have a racism issue with first nations people and its a very complicated history and I don't think it's getting better, if anything, worse.

I have always advocated for significantly more extreme measures in attempting to address SOME of the issues. You hear first nations leaders talk about certain things and I hear people in charge just pacifying them with more BS and just throwing some cash at the problem.

Considering some of the issues we face as a country with racism, poverty, access to health care, education, substance abuse etc, it's safe to say the way things are set up isn't. working well. Nobody can really stand here and say the way things are in 2020 is really moving in the right direction and people are happy with the results.

I know we have a lot of very progressive people talking up a big game about this and that but are the results really there? Have they been there over the long term? Will things improve if we go down the same paths that some of the expert progressive individuals think, not listen to, will address?

When you hear people like Jody Wilson Raybould discuss what happened to her and how that entire situation played out, how can we believe any of this garbage coming out of these powerful people's mouths?? When she said something along the lines of "I was taken out as Justice Minister and they wanted to put me in charge of the Indian Act so I can hand out welfare chq's" that should be a very stark reminder of how brutal we are dealing with this.

I recall reading a piece on the Teck Resources mine project that was railroaded by the current federal government, despite what they say at the time. One of the leaders of a local first nation, which had VERY VERY strong local support from various bands in the area said something along the lines of "Does anybody have a plan for our people? We supported this project and people were looking at improving their lives through it but now what?"

It's pretty safe to say that we could probably fire about 90+% of everybody who works at the local, provincial and federal level in dealing with a lot of the issues discussed in this thread and many more conversations. They aren't doing jack ****** s*** if they are honest. Shuffling paper, answering emails, getting paid well and handing out money while the situation at best stays terrible.

What's the problem with what? A lot of white people with cushy government jobs are going to be out of work? Especially in power centers like Ottawa? Are we going to allow that to happen to help improve the situation?

Are we going to going to allow first nations to do whatever it is they want to do with their specific land? Do they really need to go through Ottawa on all these approvals for projects of many different kinds? What if specific projects go against certain pledges made by white men, in suits, in glass towers in Ottawa, NY, Brussels and Paris? What's that all about if we are really honest about empowering FN youth? What about the reverse?

Sorry about the rant but I always get a good kick out of a lot of people running around yelling racism at anything and everything and than when it comes time to do anything, all of a sudden a lot of people are quite. If people want to address a lot of the issues, extreme actions will be needed and a lot of people in power will need to relinquish power and have to pay some big time $$$$ out of their own pockets.

How many people are willing to do that?

[afc wimbledon]

It's difficult for me to think of any other motivation but racism when a nurse thinks its appropriate in an ER to make repulsive comments about a complete stranger they know nothing about other than the fact they are a mother in pain and native, I'd truly be interested to hear what other motivation you guys think these comments might have been caused by other than race, is it common for nurses to insult people with stomach pain, is that some medical prejudice I'm unaware of?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I think some posters might have only read a portion of my post or had some pre-conceived notions.

I am not suggesting that this wasn't a terrible act or that the video wasn't awful or that Quebec or this hospital doesn't have a race or racism. Every single thing that we have seen in this video show's bad, in every way shape or form. In my post I acknowledged racism, sexism and other discrimination in the health care system exists 100%, I am not denying that.

What I was just wondering, not really questioning or arguing is if this was specifically tied to race and if so, did I miss something in the news pieces I had seen.

You're not wrong about anything you said and you're right that they didn't say anything overtly racist as far as I know. But the problem is most racists aren't going to be overtly racist, many won't even know they are being racist at all.

The nurses probably don't even think they were being racist, they'll justify it to themselves that they see a lot of Indigenous people come in that are drunk or drug etc. and thought it was fair to assume this was one of those times. But stereotyping based on race is pretty clearly racism.

In this very thread, with absolutely no reason to suggest it, we had a poster bring up the possibility she may have been a prostitute with drug problems to hand-wave away the racism. But if she was a married white mother going to the hospital for chronic pain, do you think anyone would unprovoked bring up the chances of her being a prostitute?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I have no words.

TL;DR black students at an Elementary/Junior High School were using the n-word a lot. Principal then used the word while questioning them about it. Students got suspended for breaking school policy. And now all hell is breaking loose.

"So how come it's OK for you to say [the N-word]?" principal Lianne Anderson asked a group of Black students, questioning their use of the word.

"The word was more so used in a situation to explain, like, 'If it's not OK for me to use the word, why is it OK for you to use the word?'" said district spokeswoman Sandra Borowski. "I think the whole point was to kind of clarify that, bottom line, the use of the word is just generally unacceptable for anyone."

Nwofor, who also is a leader for the local Black Lives Matter chapter, said the conversation never should have happened, because Black people are allowed to use the word if they choose.

"It is a word that we are reclaiming that was used to oppress people, and if you are not Black and you are using that word, you are using it as an oppressor and it means you have privilege," she said. "If you have privilege and you use that word, you are being an oppressor and you're being racist, quite frankly."

Educator Sagal Yusuf says when somebody who is not Black uses the N-word, it is considered violent.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ents-1.5745427

[Oling_Roachinen]

"The word was more so used in a situation to explain, like, 'If it's not OK for me to use the word, why is it OK for you to use the word?'" said district spokeswoman Sandra Borowski. "I think the whole point was to kind of clarify that, bottom line, the use of the word is just generally unacceptable for anyone.

Funny how Sandra Borowski didn't have to use the actual word to get to the exact same spot in the discussion. It's almost like this wasn't about having a discussion at all...

[Cecil Terwilliger]

They’re all morons. All of them. The principal, the spokesman, the kids, these moron activists saying it’s ok to use language like that around children in a school, the media for trying to make this into a click bait article with a misleading headline.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

You're not wrong about anything you said and you're right that they didn't say anything overtly racist as far as I know. But the problem is most racists aren't going to be overtly racist, many won't even know they are being racist at all.

The nurses probably don't even think they were being racist, they'll justify it to themselves that they see a lot of Indigenous people come in that are drunk or drug etc. and thought it was fair to assume this was one of those times. But stereotyping based on race is pretty clearly racism.

In this very thread, with absolutely no reason to suggest it, we had a poster bring up the possibility she may have been a prostitute with drug problems to hand-wave away the racism. But if she was a married white mother going to the hospital for chronic pain, do you think anyone would unprovoked bring up the chances of her being a prostitute?

7 children in 2020 isn't a reason to think prostitution is at least a possibility? I only know 1 person with 7 kids, a white woman, who was a prostitute.

Man you are going to hurt yourself reaching that far to try and paint me as a racist. At least grow a ####ing set and have the fortitude to say it rather than ##### footing around thinking you're clever.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

7 children in 2020 isn't a reason to think prostitution is at least a possibility? I only know 1 person with 7 kids, a white woman, who was a prostitute.

Man you are going to hurt yourself reaching that far to try and paint me as a racist. At least grow a ####ing set and have the fortitude to say it rather than ##### footing around thinking you're clever.

You’re a racist.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Why are you blaming the activist? She made good points and sounds like you share the same view.

Nwofor said she understands why there might be rules about using the word at a school, and said if there is zero tolerance, then the principal should never have said the word.

"I would tell the authority figure the correct way to handle it is to say, 'We have a zero N-word policy here, and we are going to discuss with your guardians about how to move forward."

I'd also go light on the school kids who are right to be confused when even adults haven't figured this out.

This should be entirely on the principal.

I think there's some nuances around old books like To Kill a Mockingbird and how to handle the usage in it, but at this point, a principal dropping the n-word in front of students like this?

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

You’re a racist.

If stupidity is now a race you are absolutely correct.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

7 children in 2020 isn't a reason to think prostitution is at least a possibility?

Seven children with the same man...her husband...How do you think prostitution works?

But I think you proved my point. This isn't about the number of children she had or her medical condition or anything else, it's her appearance, it's her race.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Seven children with the same man...her husband...How do you think prostitution works?

But I think you proved my point. This isn't about the number of children she had or her medical condition or anything else, it's her appearance, it's her race.

There is literally no mention of a husband or all the kids having the same father in the article that was posted.

I think all you have proved is you are petty and pathetic.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

There is literally no mention of a husband or all the kids having the same father in the article that was posted.

I think all you have proved is you are petty and pathetic.

And? So you just assumed she had a bunch of kids with different fathers because....oh. Yep, her race. Got it.

So why would you assume she was a prostitute because it didn't mention that she was married in the one article you read? How backwards ass-racist is that? You're readily admitting that you're assuming negative things about the victim because the article didn't go out of it's way to cover all the bases?

Someone calls Jacob Blake a bad person because he was charged with sexual assault and you call him a racist. But you call a married mother a prostitute based on her race and that's cool.

Racist clown.

And:
https://people.com/human-interest/dy...22I%20am%20sad.

Echaquan's husband, Carol Dubé, told the outlet that he believes the nurses meant to humiliate his wife.

"I have seven children who find themselves without a mother," Dubé said. "I am sad. I am so sad."

Not that it ####in should matter. She could have 7 different fathers to her children, there's nothing but her race for you to keep suggesting she may be a prostitute with a drug problem. Which is especially stupid when she was trying to get less morphine. And even if she was, she didn't deserve to be humiliated.

[White Out 403]

What gross, ugly commentary from Crown Royal. Not much more to add than that.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

And? So you just assumed she had a bunch of kids with different fathers because....oh. Yep, her race. Got it.

So why would you assume she was a prostitute because it didn't mention that she was married in the one article you read? How backwards ass-racist is that? You're readily admitting that you're assuming negative things about the victim because the article didn't go out of it's way to cover all the bases?

Someone calls Jacob Blake a bad person because he was charged with sexual assault and you call him a racist. But you call a married mother a prostitute based on her race and that's cool.

Racist clown.

And:
https://people.com/human-interest/dy...22I%20am%20sad.


Not that it ####in should matter. She could have 7 different fathers to her children, there's nothing but her race for you to keep suggesting she may be a prostitute with a drug problem. Which is especially stupid when she was trying to get less morphine.

I didn't assume anything based on her race, In fact I didn't assume a ####ing thing. I threw out a POSSIBILITY based on how rare 7 children are in this era and the only person I know with that many children having been a sex worker. Which I already stated, but like always you ignore what people say other than small parts you cherry pick and manipulate into your own bull#### narrative, because you are a sad, petty and pathetic excuse of a person.

I didn't call anyone anything regarding their opinions on Jacob Blake. You really need to stop making #### up, this is bordering on slander dude.

It's wonderful that you linked an article I didn't even see as "proof" of me being a racist. So my suggested possibility was wrong. Unlike you, I can actually admit that.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by Looch City

Let's keep the conversation civil this time please. And above all else, follow these three words:

Well, we can't say you didn't try... :/