Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 02-10-2023, 03:07 PM   #2241
rubecube
Franchise Player
 
rubecube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach View Post
I'd actually argue that blackface at is most basic level is one of the most purely racist acts there are, by the definition of racism as systemic oppression of a people based on their ethnicity. It is actively taking employment from that community by having someone pretending to be a part of that community instead, and stems from all sorts of racist ideas.

But I'd also argue that rube cube's note is too broad to apply to racism. Attributing traits due to skin color, sure. But attributing attributes to ancestry is different, and doesn't have to be racist depending on context. If you know someone's ancestry (ie their specific culture), you may make an improper assumption about someones skill at something, but without being racist.
I used "ancestry" mostly to include ethnic Jews. I make fun of where people are from all the time. My best friend is Polish (gross).
rubecube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2023, 03:44 PM   #2242
Coach
Franchise Player
 
Coach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vancouver
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube View Post
I used "ancestry" mostly to include ethnic Jews. I make fun of where people are from all the time. My best friend is Polish (gross).
Would you say you feel comfortable to use this type of "feigned" vulgarity towards the Polish because they are white people? I doubt I would be able to say that someone being from Yemen is "gross" without being pretty heavily derided.

FTR, I don't think anyone from anywhere is inherently gross, even as a joke really (okay, Edmonton). I would think that sort of comment can only exist because they are your friend, nothing much to do with them being Polish or anything else.
__________________
Coach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2023, 03:59 PM   #2243
rubecube
Franchise Player
 
rubecube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach View Post
Would you say you feel comfortable to use this type of "feigned" vulgarity towards the Polish because they are white people? I doubt I would be able to say that someone being from Yemen is "gross" without being pretty heavily derided.

FTR, I don't think anyone from anywhere is inherently gross, even as a joke really (okay, Edmonton). I would think that sort of comment can only exist because they are your friend, nothing much to do with them being Polish or anything else.
Oh 100%. I make fun of the English all the time as well because I'm half English and they're just awful.
rubecube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2023, 04:18 PM   #2244
Coach
Franchise Player
 
Coach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vancouver
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube View Post
Oh 100%. I make fun of the English all the time as well because I'm half English and they're just awful.
So you don't actually make fun of where people are from all the time, you just bust on your friends and your own heritage. That's a far cry from telling random people where they're from is gross or basically any kind of bigotry.

I have a friend whose family is Danish. Sometimes we call him a viking or talk in some variable Scandinavian accent with him. But I would never do that to someone who I just met and learned was Swedish. It may not be overly insulting or classified as racist to BORK BORK at a Swedish person, but they'll probably think you're a dink. No different if an American starts spouting a bunch of Canadian stereotypes thinking they are funny.

Point is there is no hard and fast rules for these things. Context matters. Even blackface. People try to tell me Tropic Thunder couldn't be made now and I disagree. The joke is on the racism, it's not a racist joke. It just takes tact, discipline and intelligence to do it right.
__________________
Coach is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Coach For This Useful Post:
Old 02-10-2023, 05:13 PM   #2245
PepsiFree
Participant
Participant
 
PepsiFree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach View Post
Point is there is no hard and fast rules for these things. Context matters. Even blackface. People try to tell me Tropic Thunder couldn't be made now and I disagree. The joke is on the racism, it's not a racist joke. It just takes tact, discipline and intelligence to do it right.
This is true. And I think part of the problem is that people from across the ideological spectrum have decided that rules are important for very different reasons. “The rules” are basically used as a pawn to make an argument.

Someone might take two situations which seem to be treated differently without understanding or acknowledging the context and say, “Why is this OK but not that? if that’s OK then I should be able to do this. Isn’t that the rule?”

Someone else might say “This person did or said this thing, and the rule is that the thing is not OK, so this person is not OK. Isn’t that the rule?”

In both cases, context makes a pretty huge difference. People want to make up definitions for words and play in the very nitpicky-realm of what specifically is or isn’t ok, or play dumb to bait people into saying something that will validate them, but all it does is move people away from a simpler truth.

Someone could look at Tropic Thunder and say “not OK, because blackface” while someone else says “they did it, so blackface must be OK” and someone else says “it’s not technically blackface because it doesn’t follow the specific rules to determine the impact of the usage of blackface” or whatever. And the simplest explanation is that it’s ok because of the context.

Going back to the Rogan thing, it’s a simple fact: he used an anti-semitic stereotype. Does that make him anti-semitic? No. He might be, or not be. But, given the context, we still know it wasn’t an OK thing to use. Instead of just acknowledging it, the conversation has devolved into “is Rogan a NAZI?” “is it racist if I don’t like CHICKEN FEET?” “actually, white privilege is RACIST” “sorry, that doesn’t TECHNICALLY fit the dictionary definition of RACISM.”

End of the day, it’s a lot of people obsessing over the rules because following the rules (or showing you don’t follow the rules) is more important than bothering to understand a concept to a level where context answers all of these questions for you.
PepsiFree is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to PepsiFree For This Useful Post:
Old 02-11-2023, 02:58 AM   #2246
rubecube
Franchise Player
 
rubecube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFree View Post



Going back to the Rogan thing, it’s a simple fact: he used an anti-semitic stereotype. Does that make him anti-semitic? No. He might be, or not be. But, given the context, we still know it wasn’t an OK thing to use. Instead of just acknowledging it, the conversation has devolved into “is Rogan a NAZI?” “is it racist if I don’t like CHICKEN FEET?” “actually, white privilege is RACIST” “sorry, that doesn’t TECHNICALLY fit the dictionary definition of RACISM.”



End of the day, it’s a lot of people obsessing over the rules because following the rules (or showing you don’t follow the rules) is more important than bothering to understand a concept to a level where context answers all of these questions for you.
It's also not the first time he's been busted using anti-Semitic tropes. I also don't think he's deliberately anti-Semitic. I just think he's a dumb baboon.

That said, he has a massive platform. So I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to be more careful about this stuff.
rubecube is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to rubecube For This Useful Post:
Old 02-11-2023, 03:35 AM   #2247
rubecube
Franchise Player
 
rubecube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
Exp:
Default

Nm. Apparently I'm too drunk to figure out how to embed.


https://youtube.com/watch?v=Fq4WEnaH...SIkaIECMiOmarE
rubecube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2023, 01:04 PM   #2248
FormerPresJamesTaylor
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Exp:
Default

https://twitter.com/user/status/1625249621168779264

another eww
FormerPresJamesTaylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2023, 01:20 PM   #2249
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

What in the WTF is going on in his head?
Fuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2023, 01:37 PM   #2250
Itse
Franchise Player
 
Itse's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
What in the WTF is going on in his head?

It's lobsters all the way down.
Itse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2023, 01:54 PM   #2251
blankall
Ate 100 Treadmills
 
blankall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
What in the WTF is going on in his head?
A healthy mix of prescription drugs, big pay cheques, and social media accolades. That combo must result in just a constant buzzing noise. I seriously doubt he has the ability to form new thoughts. He just says the same old ones louder and louder.
blankall is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to blankall For This Useful Post:
Old 02-21-2023, 03:20 PM   #2252
afc wimbledon
Franchise Player
 
afc wimbledon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
A healthy mix of prescription drugs, big pay cheques, and social media accolades. That combo must result in just a constant buzzing noise. I seriously doubt he has the ability to form new thoughts. He just says the same old ones louder and louder.
prescription?? come on
afc wimbledon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2023, 05:28 AM   #2253
FormerPresJamesTaylor
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Exp:
Default

https://twitter.com/user/status/1628292293173342208
FormerPresJamesTaylor is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to FormerPresJamesTaylor For This Useful Post:
Old 02-23-2023, 06:16 AM   #2254
Maritime Q-Scout
Ben
 
Maritime Q-Scout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: God's Country (aka Cape Breton Island)
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor View Post
I, for the life of me, can't figure out what's tyrannical about that.

Somewhat related, I've come to the realization that "woke" means "not being an a**hole".

And man, are a**holes angry that society tells them they shouldn't be a**holes.
__________________

"Calgary Flames is the best team in all the land" - My Brainwashed Son
Maritime Q-Scout is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Maritime Q-Scout For This Useful Post:
Old 02-23-2023, 06:45 AM   #2255
PsYcNeT
Franchise Player
 
PsYcNeT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Marseilles Of The Prairies
Exp:
Default

"Woke" has just replaced "Political Correctness" as the rallying cry for ammosexuals, and "Political Correctness" was always analogous with "showing others basic respect" so that tracks.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm View Post
Settle down there, Temple Grandin.
PsYcNeT is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PsYcNeT For This Useful Post:
Old 02-23-2023, 08:57 AM   #2256
Monahammer
Franchise Player
 
Monahammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Alberta
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor View Post
He's obviously crossed over into legitimate senility at this point, eh? This is old man yells at cloud ramped up to absurdity.
Monahammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2023, 09:20 AM   #2257
GreenLantern2814
Franchise Player
 
GreenLantern2814's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach View Post
Would you say you feel comfortable to use this type of "feigned" vulgarity towards the Polish because they are white people? I doubt I would be able to say that someone being from Yemen is "gross" without being pretty heavily derided.

FTR, I don't think anyone from anywhere is inherently gross, even as a joke really (okay, Edmonton). I would think that sort of comment can only exist because they are your friend, nothing much to do with them being Polish or anything else.
.

On a very fundamental level, jokes are part of human socialization.

We make jokes to understand one another, to process major events, to make sense of things - if we can find a humourous take on a situation, we can process it better and integrate it into our lives.

Some things are insensitive. Some things are ignorant. Some things are pernicious. Some things are jokes.

Not being able to joke about annoying things other people (and yes, other groups) do only fosters resentment. There’s nothing wrong with jokes.

What’s wrong is violence, denying people jobs or housing, burning crosses on lawns - obvious stuff.

I just don’t think we should be looking at the world we’ve built, at the country we’ve built, and go too far concluding we’re all perniciously racist when we’re clearly not.
GreenLantern2814 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2023, 09:23 AM   #2258
TheIronMaiden
Franchise Player
 
TheIronMaiden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: ATCO Field, Section 201
Exp:
Default

What's next, asking folks not to flush tampons down the toilet so they don't damage the plumbing? What else? not lifting the seat before pissing all over it.
TheIronMaiden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2023, 09:32 AM   #2259
TorqueDog
Franchise Player
 
TorqueDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary - Centre West
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout View Post
I, for the life of me, can't figure out what's tyrannical about that.

Somewhat related, I've come to the realization that "woke" means "not being an a**hole".

And man, are a**holes angry that society tells them they shouldn't be a**holes.
Not being an assh-le means not being an assh-le. "Woke" frankly is something else, and I'm only able to classify it in context. When someone like JBP uses it, "woke" covers the spectrum from 'annoying Twitter mob' to 'advocates for common decency'. It's like turning on a faucet with a calcified aerator, that sh-t just gets everywhere.

"Hey, you can't park here."
"Up yours, woke moralists."
"I'm the Fire Marshal, you're parked in a fire lane."

In any case, it's performative at this point, it has to be. "Use only as much as you need" just makes sense. Now, having the guy in the black button up in the bar lavatory shouting "p-ssy p-ssy p-ssy", spritzing you with unwanted AXE body spray, and giving you a tiny square of paper towel, then expecting a ten dollar tip... well, I don't know if that's tyrannical, but I do know it's assh-lerry at its finest.
__________________
-James
GO
FLAMES GO.
TorqueDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2023, 09:55 AM   #2260
darockwilder
Powerplay Quarterback
 
darockwilder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor View Post
Might as well just use 4 arm lengths and light the rest on fire to stick to the "woke moralists".
__________________
Sent from an adult man under a dumpster
darockwilder is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:39 AM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021