Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Go Back   Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community > Main Forums > The Off Topic Forum
Ivrnet

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-10-2017, 12:52 PM   #41
speede5
First Line Centre
 
speede5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague View Post
Actually, this is incorrect, as far as I'm aware. I'm pretty sure the thin skull rule applies equally in the criminal context in Canada as it does in tort. Basically, if you're a wrongful actor, you take your victim as you find him. In other words, if you sucker punch a guy in the ear, and unbeknownst to you he has a medical condition that makes him ten times more likely to die from a sucker punch in the ear, that is not a defense.
We had a youth die here from a one punch. I believe the technical cause of death was a brain aneurysm. The puncher was cleared due to the fact the prosecution could not prove the punch was the cause of the aneurysm or it was prexisting. I think they also considered that the punch didn't necessarily cause the injury, but his head hitting the curb may have.

Regardless the puncher never went to jail.
speede5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2017, 12:57 PM   #42
CorsiHockeyLeague
Franchise Player
 
CorsiHockeyLeague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Exp:
Default

If it was his head hitting the curb following being punched that caused the aneurysm, the guy would be in jail. If they failed to establish beyond a reasonable doubt that the punch caused the aneurysm (directly or indirectly), that would make more sense.
__________________
If you were given the option to pay 45 cents to predict the outcome of a coin flip, and if correct in your prediction you win a dollar, you may lose 45 cents on the first try. You may even lose 90 cents after the second try. But if you keep betting, you'll end up ahead in the long term. This is the value of analytics. They do not describe destiny, only the likeliest result.
CorsiHockeyLeague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2017, 12:58 PM   #43
Cecil Terwilliger
That Crazy Guy at the Bus Stop
 
Cecil Terwilliger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Springfield Penitentiary
Exp:
Default

Do we know the guy threw it back into the car?

The quote in the article says the guy threw it back at her, not necessarily that he threw it back into the car.
Cecil Terwilliger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2017, 01:04 PM   #44
CorsiHockeyLeague
Franchise Player
 
CorsiHockeyLeague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger View Post
Do we know the guy threw it back into the car? The quote in the article says the guy threw it back at her, not necessarily that he threw it back into the car.
I'm assuming it's basically a copycat of the viral video of a russian motorcyclist throwing people's litter at them:
__________________
If you were given the option to pay 45 cents to predict the outcome of a coin flip, and if correct in your prediction you win a dollar, you may lose 45 cents on the first try. You may even lose 90 cents after the second try. But if you keep betting, you'll end up ahead in the long term. This is the value of analytics. They do not describe destiny, only the likeliest result.
CorsiHockeyLeague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2017, 01:04 PM   #45
DeluxeMoustache
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Exp:
Default

I have seen on the internet people saying "cigarette butt out the window = punch in the face". Also the above ^

So throwing a butt out the window is wrong. No dispute.

Throwing it back in can be quite dangerous. There are laws for distracted driving, which recognize the danger for what is a self imposed and controllable distraction. I should think that the distraction of something burning in their car could make the driver lose a lot more focus and become much more dangerous in a moving vehicle. It is not something under their control.

So the first thrower (out) did something wrong, the guy who threw it back did something more wrong and much more reckless (assuming that the car outside the Starbucks was in a typical urban area and that concrete jungles are less susceptible to wildfires than, say, forests)

Tragic either way. Too bad the vigilante throwing it in the car wasn't thinking of the potential consequences. Most people if they considered the danger he was creating, would not do so. (and by consequences, I mean the risk at which he put the driver, not suggesting that the escalation is by any means a reasonable consequence.)

Stupid and avoidable from both sides with unfortunately tragic consequences.


Edit: I assumed she was driving and he successfully threw it in the car. If she was out of the car then it is obviously not as dangerous.

Last edited by DeluxeMoustache; 08-10-2017 at 01:09 PM.
DeluxeMoustache is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DeluxeMoustache For This Useful Post:
Old 08-10-2017, 01:07 PM   #46
Oling_Roachinen
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger View Post
Do we know the guy threw it back into the car?

The quote in the article says the guy threw it back at her, not necessarily that he threw it back into the car.
I don't know if it makes an ounce of difference to me. Certainly wouldn't matter with regards to the legal aspect as he was clearly not an active threat if they had to follow him. It's a cigarette bud, her own, so it's not like it's going to kill her (well...cancer) and if it was still hot it's even more of a reason she deserved to have it thrown at her.

But assuming she's still in the vehicle with her window down, it's pretty much tomato tomato.
Oling_Roachinen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2017, 01:10 PM   #47
Weitz
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache View Post
I have seen on the internet people saying "cigarette butt out the window = punch in the face". Also the above ^

So throwing a butt out the window is wrong. No dispute.

Throwing it back in can be quite dangerous. There are laws for distracted driving, which recognize the danger for what is a self imposed and controllable distraction. I should think that the distraction of something burning in their car could make the driver lose a lot more focus and become much more dangerous in a moving vehicle. It is not something under their control.

So the first thrower (out) did something wrong, the guy who threw it back did something more wrong and much more reckless (assuming that the car outside the Starbucks was in a typical urban area and that concrete jungles are less susceptible to wildfires than, say, forests)

Tragic either way. Too bad the vigilante throwing it in the car wasn't thinking of the potential consequences. Most people if they considered the danger he was creating, would not do so. (and by consequences, I mean the risk at which he put the driver, not suggesting that the escalation is by any means a reasonable consequence.)

Stupid and avoidable from both sides with unfortunately tragic consequences.


Edit: I assumed she was driving and he successfully threw it in the car. If she was out of the car then it is obviously not as dangerous.
Did they really throw it back in somehow when the person was driving?
Weitz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2017, 01:12 PM   #48
Oling_Roachinen
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Exp:
Default

I'm assuming she was parked waiting for the man in the bank.
Oling_Roachinen is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Oling_Roachinen For This Useful Post:
Old 08-10-2017, 01:14 PM   #49
SportsJunky
Uncle Chester
 
SportsJunky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger View Post
The quote in the article says the guy threw it back at her, not necessarily that he threw it back into the car.
Good question. I'd like to know that too.

If a guy flicked a butt at me I might react differently than if he flicked it in my car. Flicking it into my car would probably deserve a punchin'.
__________________
Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand.
Kurt Vonnegut
SportsJunky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2017, 01:14 PM   #50
DeluxeMoustache
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weitz View Post
Did they really throw it back in somehow when the person was driving?
Yeah that's why I made the edit. Makes more sense that she was parked or still.

The thread title says it was thrown back in the car. :-)
DeluxeMoustache is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2017, 03:52 PM   #51
oilers_fan
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Edson
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canehdianman View Post
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that the killer is either a cop or a relative of a cop.

I hope I'm wrong though.

*from what I remember of criminal law in class, it would be a one-punch manslaughter case.
am I missing something here?
__________________
But living an honest life - for that you need the truth. That's the other thing I learned that day, that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, leads to liberation and dignity. -Ricky Gervais
oilers_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2017, 03:56 PM   #52
Canehdianman
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers_fan View Post
am I missing something here?
Guess so. What part confused you?
Canehdianman is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Canehdianman For This Useful Post:
Old 08-10-2017, 03:58 PM   #53
oilers_fan
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Edson
Exp:
Default

The fact that you're guessing it was a cop or a relative of a cop. What a weird thing to think. What makes you figure that's the case?
__________________
But living an honest life - for that you need the truth. That's the other thing I learned that day, that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, leads to liberation and dignity. -Ricky Gervais
oilers_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to oilers_fan For This Useful Post:
Old 08-10-2017, 04:05 PM   #54
northcrunk
First Line Centre
 
northcrunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Exp:
Default

Sounds like the death was accidental due to the way he fell. If you start a fight and both sides agree to go the cops consider it a mutual fight and won't lay charges. Even if your the one attacked.
northcrunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2017, 04:23 PM   #55
Fighting Banana Slug
First Line Centre
 
Fighting Banana Slug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by northcrunk View Post
Sounds like the death was accidental due to the way he fell. If you start a fight and both sides agree to go the cops consider it a mutual fight and won't lay charges. Even if your the one attacked.
That simply isn't true, but even if so, what makes you think both sides agreed?
__________________
From HFBoard oiler fan, in analyzing MacT's management:
O.K. there has been a lot of talk on whether or not MacTavish has actually done a good job for us, most fans on this board are very basic in their analysis and I feel would change their opinion entirely if the team was successful.
Fighting Banana Slug is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Fighting Banana Slug For This Useful Post:
Old 08-10-2017, 04:29 PM   #56
PepsiFree
#1 Goaltender
 
PepsiFree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by northcrunk View Post
Sounds like the death was accidental due to the way he fell. If you start a fight and both sides agree to go the cops consider it a mutual fight and won't lay charges. Even if your the one attacked.
No it doesn't. The man punched him. I'm not really sure I care how much he wanted to injure him, but as far as I'm concerned there was nothing accidental about it. What happened was an unfortunate but entirely possible result of a purposeful action.

If you purposefully attack someone and kill them, it wasn't an accident.
PepsiFree is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to PepsiFree For This Useful Post:
Old 08-10-2017, 04:32 PM   #57
OMG!WTF!
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Exp:
Default

How do both sides agree to fight if one side is attacked?
OMG!WTF! is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2017, 07:28 PM   #58
octothorp
Franchise Player
 
octothorp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: not lurking
Exp:
Default

Is there anything in the criminal code that would punish him for fleeing the scene? If you're involved in a traffic accident, you see someone else on the ground bleeding, and you flee the scene and that person dies, I believe that's potentially life in prison under the criminal code. Is there any similar punishment for non-vehicular but otherwise similar incidents?
octothorp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2017, 08:18 PM   #59
Canehdianman
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers_fan View Post
The fact that you're guessing it was a cop or a relative of a cop. What a weird thing to think. What makes you figure that's the case?
The police didn't release any details until a reporter bugged them a few weeks later.

And no charges yet? It's pretty clear who did it, there will be footage from the bank as well as paperwork showing exactly who it was. They could have arrested the guy that day if they wanted to.

Just seems suspicious to me. Like I said, I hope it's not the case but the RCMP doesn't instil a ton of confidence.
Canehdianman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2017, 01:13 AM   #60
ToewsFan
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by speede5 View Post
We had a youth die here from a one punch. I believe the technical cause of death was a brain aneurysm. The puncher was cleared due to the fact the prosecution could not prove the punch was the cause of the aneurysm or it was prexisting. I think they also considered that the punch didn't necessarily cause the injury, but his head hitting the curb may have.

Regardless the puncher never went to jail.
Absolutely ridiculous.

If the victim lived, the perpetrator would have faced Assault Causing Bodily Harm charges. Because he died, he is cleared???

I sure hope the Crown decides to lay charges against the man, considering it was a sucker-punch.
ToewsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:34 PM.

Calgary Flames
2017-18




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2016