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Old 08-09-2017, 07:45 PM   #1
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Default BC Man Punched and Killed, after throwing cigarette butt back into smokers car.

Not sure if posted before, but pretty significant situation after a man tried to teach a smoker a lesson about throwing out cigarette butts, ends up dying from punch inside Starbucks...certainly given the BC wildfires adds even more to the vigilante nature of this story.

No charges yet.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/b...eath-1.4240816
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Old 08-09-2017, 07:56 PM   #2
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Not sure if posted before, but pretty significant situation after a man tried to teach a smoker a lesson about throwing out cigarette butts, ends up dying from punch inside Starbucks...certainly given the BC wildfires adds even more to the vigilante nature of this story.

No charges yet.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/b...eath-1.4240816
Dude didnt deserve to die but if you toss a butt in someones car you showed be prepared to throw down. Dude probably thought he was tougher than the woman.
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:07 PM   #3
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He absolutely shouldn't have thrown the butt back into the car, but I have a serious issue with smokers who just litter. Respect your city.
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:20 PM   #4
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He absolutely shouldn't have thrown the butt back into the car, but I have a serious issue with smokers who just litter. Respect your city.
Smokers dont respect their own bodies, how do you expect someone like that to respect their city?
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:26 PM   #5
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This has to be classified as manslaughter no?

Of course pending what happened in the altercation.
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:28 PM   #6
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This fellow was a the brother of a friend of a friend of my wife. The story she was told is that the young man has a mild form or tourette's or autism (wife couldn't remember) and that he was, essentially, scolding the women that threw out the cigarette. He get's easily worked up and obsessively watches the news so this may have been a bit of a trigger. i don't believe from I was told that he was being macho or trying to just be a dick or anything. It was all very innocent from his side and easily misunderstood from the other side.

Very unfortunate event.
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Old 08-09-2017, 11:48 PM   #7
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Seems pretty sketchy on the part of the RCMP. What type of "leads" are they pursuing? There's no way they can't identify a couple that were inside a bank and Starbucks, especially when they have eye-witnesses and presumably have all the information on the car, for some reason bank parking lots like to invest in security cameras. So they have to know who the assailant was that followed a man into Starbucks and suckered punched him killing him - it doesn't matter what transpired earlier, that's at the very least manslaughter based on the witness statements. Not coming out with any public information when you have a murder take place until being forced to because concerned witnesses are contacting the paper a month later. Even the RCMP's excuse that they had all the information they needed and didn't need public assistant points to them 100% knowing who did it, so why hasn't their been charges a month later or at least some type of statement of the incident prior to being hounded by a reporter? Something isn't quite adding up, the assailant must have friends high up.
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:37 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen View Post
Seems pretty sketchy on the part of the RCMP. What type of "leads" are they pursuing? There's no way they can't identify a couple that were inside a bank and Starbucks, especially when they have eye-witnesses and presumably have all the information on the car, for some reason bank parking lots like to invest in security cameras. So they have to know who the assailant was that followed a man into Starbucks and suckered punched him killing him - it doesn't matter what transpired earlier, that's at the very least manslaughter based on the witness statements. Not coming out with any public information when you have a murder take place until being forced to because concerned witnesses are contacting the paper a month later. Even the RCMP's excuse that they had all the information they needed and didn't need public assistant points to them 100% knowing who did it, so why hasn't their been charges a month later or at least some type of statement of the incident prior to being hounded by a reporter? Something isn't quite adding up, the assailant must have friends high up.
Or they have referred the file to crown, there's little risk of the suspect fleeing or particularly being a threat to the community despite this tragedy, there isn't really a rush
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:52 AM   #9
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Or they have referred the file to crown, there's little risk of the suspect fleeing or particularly being a threat to the community despite this tragedy, there isn't really a rush
Except that's not what was said when they got the opportunity to say so. There's a clear lack of transparency in the case, and evidently I'm not the only to see it.

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/man-sucker-punc...sses-1.3539565

Quote:
Police normally announce that a murder investigation has begun, but there was no such announcement until Wednesday, Aug. 9.
But Josh Paterson of the B.C. Civil Liberties Association says police need clear standards to judge what they should say and what they should keep to themselves.
“The public has a right to know” about crimes so that they can judge the effectiveness of their police forces, and to better understand crime so society can come up with ways to deal with it, he said.
“Plenty of people saw this and have questions about what went down. Generally the bias should be in favour of publicly releasing information,” he said.
Again, a month went by after a young man was killed and there was nothing said by the RCMP until a journalist contacted the police. Their response was pretty much "Eh, we're looking into it." That's not standard in the slightest.
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Old 08-10-2017, 07:00 AM   #10
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Pretty unfortunate incident. I hate it as well when smokers just toss their butts around like the world is their ashtray. However the guy probably would have been better served to pick up the butt himself and put it in the garbage in front of the woman to show her up rather than throw it back at her. Then again throwing a butt shouldn't warrant getting punched out by another adult. I hope that guy gets charged because that kind of behavior isn't acceptable in our society.
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Old 08-10-2017, 07:37 AM   #11
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Pretty unfortunate incident. I hate it as well when smokers just toss their butts around like the world is their ashtray. However the guy probably would have been better served to pick up the butt himself and put it in the garbage in front of the woman to show her up rather than throw it back at her. Then again throwing a butt shouldn't warrant getting punched out by another adult. I hope that guy gets charged because that kind of behavior isn't acceptable in our society.
Throwing a ciggerette butt in someone's car likely does warrant getting punched in the face. Throwing the butt is more or less assault. Its tragic that he ended up dying especially if what was said above about his mental state is true but I don't think that it would be reasonable to expect no consequence from throwing a ciggerette butt. It's like spitting in someone's face
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Old 08-10-2017, 07:40 AM   #12
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Shows what kind of people throw butts out their windows.
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Old 08-10-2017, 07:43 AM   #13
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It does seem like, given the location and witnesses, that we should know a hell of a lot more about this case than we do.

Really, there are two viable possibilities here. First is that the guy in the car went to yell at the 'vigilante', and the latter reacted by throwing the first punch. In that case, possibly self-defence.

Or the guy in the car went with the intent of turning it into a physical altercation, in which chase, manslaughter.

Seems the RCMP should have known almost as soon as they arrived on scene which way this was leaning, so it is all rather strange to not know anything more than "being investigated as a homicide" almost a month later.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:03 AM   #14
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The CBC has more on the story:
Quote:
"The woman tossed a cigarette out the window and he [Page-Vincelli] picked it up and he threw it back at her," said Michael Zimeras, who was one of the witnesses outside the coffee shop at the time.
The woman went inside a nearby bank and came out with a man, and the pair followed Page-Vincelli into Starbucks.
"Two minutes later they came out," said Zimeras.
Zimeras said he went inside to see what happened, and saw Page-Vincelli lying on the floor bleeding.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...eath-1.4240816

It looks like the guy came from the bank with the intent to injure him.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:08 AM   #15
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Other articles state that he was sucker punched:

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/mobile/man-suck...sses-1.3539565
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:30 AM   #16
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Both the woman and the guy who punched are POS. Hopefully they get the book thrown at them.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:31 AM   #17
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Throwing a ciggerette butt in someone's car likely does warrant getting punched in the face. Throwing the butt is more or less assault. Its tragic that he ended up dying especially if what was said above about his mental state is true but I don't think that it would be reasonable to expect no consequence from throwing a ciggerette butt. It's like spitting in someone's face
Throwing a butt is more or less assault? =/ I'm going to go with the very much "less" part on that given the circumstances. How else would you reconcile the fact that the lady was then the first person to "assault" something?

I'm not saying he shouldn't have expected to face consequences at one point, the same way if I go downtown and keep calling people ####ers I'm going to get punched in the face at one point, but I don't necessarily think he did anything 'wrong'. It was after all her trash.

In any case, it doesn't matter. According to the witnesses, she went and grabbed a man from another building and he followed him, sucker-punched him and consequently killed him. There's no room for anything but at the very least a manslaughter charge here based on what's been reported.

I realize he died several days later of his injuries, but you can almost guarantee that the assailant is going to be at least upper-middle class, anything else and he would be arrested that day before having his charges upgraded after the death. Something's fishy about the whole situation, RCMP should be far more open and transparent given that it would not in any way effect the investigation.

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Old 08-10-2017, 08:33 AM   #18
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There should be a special fine for cigarette butts, with the fire hazard it's not just littering but a complete disregard for people and property.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:40 AM   #19
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I know of two similar incidents that happened locally (altercations ending in a one punch death). There are many factors as to whether or not a charge will stick. Did he die from the punch, his head hitting the counter or the floor, or some underlying medical reason? These are all reasons the charge could go from murder to manslaughter to accident.

Hopefully the assaulter will face charges and justice served, but it doesn't happen as fast as tv land and it's never simple when you are laying this serious of a charge.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:42 AM   #20
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Other articles state that he was sucker punched:

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/mobile/man-suck...sses-1.3539565
How long it will take for people to realize you can kill someone by sucker-punching them in the face?
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