High-Profile Sexual Abuse Epidemic

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Forgetting about the specific event, if the only way to accuse someone of sexual assault is to make sure your name is front and center, that's a great way to discourage accusers from coming forward through whatever means they chose.

I can certainly agree, to some extent, that the accused should not have their name revealed until proven through court when it comes to rape and sexual assault accusations and charges.

I can not agree that an accuser needs to have their name known publicly for them to be credible.

could you agree that if you believe you've been sexually assaulted, that the best way to proceed would perhaps go to the police, instead of going to a 3rd rate website to anonymously publish your story?

to me it appears she wanted nothing more than to humiliate a celebrity who she didn't have the perfect experience with.

if you feel differently as to her intentions, fair enough.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Well based on the sentence quoted and her story it sounds about as likely that she kept revising her story to a scarier and scarier version until she had rationalized it to herself that it was assault and her friends helped her buy into that paranoia.

Once again I find it a bit odd that there is this reaction to instantly validate her experience. Is it possible that she genuinely thought she was assaulted? Sure. But it is also possible that a number of factors, a desire to fit into this movement, bitterness, anger, paranoia etc that could have played into her experience evolving from something mildly unpleasant to something terrifying.

It is totally possible she convinced herself she was hurt by this by such a strong desire to fit into the metoo movement. It is anything but clear that she was hurt, in the form of sexual assault, from the beginning.

The problem is that genuine sexual assault often follows a similar pattern of denial to acceptance, however it would obviously be for much different reasons. Just because that can be true of actual assault victims and this person followed that pattern, it does not justify her response.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Re-reading that and her talking to her friends about it - good

Her friends moving the scale from bad date to sexual assault - bad friends

This is part of the problem too. There can be a revisionist history to these episodes especially when your peer group is telling you one thing. It's easy to dismiss things as "not your fault" when other people are telling you that's what happened.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I don't know if it's been posted, but Claire Berlinski's article (https://www.the-american-interest.co...-warlock-hunt/) remains the single best written piece on this topic, in my view.

great article.
ironic that I'm scared to post it to facebook.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

great article.
ironic that I'm scared to post it to facebook.

I didn't either. Nor did I share it with anyone at work. I basically just don't talk about this subject with anyone.

[Igottago]

I was watching a Young Turks video on this last night (they are very left leaning) and even they were alarmed by how easily this movement started to group all incidents together and start conflating any less than ideal experience as sexual assault (essentially putting everything at the same level as Weinstein).

They also mentioned a couple of statistics, can't remember what the source was -- they said 1/3 of young women consider someone commenting on their looks to be harassment, as well as 1/4 that view being bought a drink as being harassed as well. That is absolutely bonkers. And reading a lot of the rabid response during this movement its incredible how many young women seem to be almost bloodthirsty in their willingness to move the goalposts to bring down what they view as injustice at every turn, without any in depth consideration about what has actually happened or what the ramifications of their accusations are. The backlash to the Ansari story, while much needed, seems primarily to be coming from older women.

I do wonder if this is just more of the type of PC extremism that seems to be showing up at college and university campuses, and gets further fueled by social media, which really does little for having in depth discussions on topics.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I was watching a Young Turks video on this last night (they are very left leaning) and even they were alarmed by how easily this movement started to group all incidents together and start conflating any less than ideal experience as sexual assault (essentially putting everything at the same level as Weinstein).

They are left leaning normally, but in this case, the guy who runs them has a vested interest in saying "this has all gone too far" after being accused of... I'm not even sure what to call it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/j...b025f99e178181

“Obviously, the genes of women are flawed,” Uygur wrote in a 1999 post lamenting the inadequate amount of sex he was having while living in Miami, Florida. “They are poorly designed creatures who do not want to have sex nearly as often as needed for the human race to get along peaceably and fruitfully.”

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I was watching a Young Turks video on this last night (they are very left leaning) and even they were alarmed by how easily this movement started to group all incidents together and start conflating any less than ideal experience as sexual assault (essentially putting everything at the same level as Weinstein).

They also mentioned a couple of statistics, can't remember what the source was -- they said 1/3 of young women consider someone commenting on their looks to be harassment, as well as 1/4 that view being bought a drink as being harassed as well. That is absolutely bonkers. And reading a lot of the rabid response during this movement its incredible how many young women seem to be almost bloodthirsty in their willingness to move the goalposts to bring down what they view as injustice at every turn, without any in depth consideration about what has actually happened or what the ramifications of their accusations are. The backlash to the Ansari story, while much needed, seems primarily to be coming from older women.

I do wonder if this is just more of the type of PC extremism that seems to be showing up at college and university campuses, and gets further fueled by social media, which really does little for having in depth discussions on topics.

I'm not sure on the source of those figures either but I've seen that study/poll referenced several times in the last little while.

If they are an accurate reflection and young women see some pretty normal and innocuous actions as sexual harassment or sexual assault, it is definitely concerning. Not only is that type of attitude a clear sign that the messages being taught are way beyond rational but also raises some valid concerns about how and why women are being conditioned to have these views. As with many movements it seems as though decades of being taken advantage of and being victims has led the pendulum to swing way in the other direction and some extremist/reactionary views being developed.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I'm not sure on the source of those figures either but I've seen that study/poll referenced several times in the last little while.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

As with many movements it seems as though decades of being taken advantage of and being victims has led the pendulum to swing way in the other direction and some extremist/reactionary views being developed.

Leftist ideology of the sort peddled on campus is obsessed with power disparity, attributing virtually every social ill to it. Whoever has more power in our social structures has all the control and all the responsibility, and whoever has less is oppressed and acted upon. The weaker party in any social relationship does not have responsibility because they do not have power.

Combine this with a dogma that says all men have institutionally-supported power over all women, and it follows that men are responsible for their actions in relationships and women are not. It also follows that the weak can't rely on our justice system and due process to protect them.

This is why we're seeing a generational divide in feminism. Older feminists fought to have the same rights and responsibilities as men, in defiance the social norms that said women were too fragile to handle this freedom. To them, new feminism looks an awful lot like the hand-wringing over female fragility that they spent their own youth challenging.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I think the commenting on attractiveness question is a bit too vague. There's a difference between "you look stunning tonight" and "you have a great ass baby" but both would fall under that category. It also shouldn't come to much of a surprise that it's the younger demographic that would be hearing the derogatory comments on attractiveness based on the maturity level of their male counterparts and scenarios. I mean, probably a lot more young women getting "nice tits" on Tinder than you're seeing at the local bingo hall. Even then, you're looking at the difference between ~30% for a 20 year old woman and ~25% for a 50 year old woman, not exactly a huge change in the age demographics in the USA.

And more young males from USA consider "asking to go for a drink" as harassment than woman, that sort of breaks the argument as being a woman's issue anyways.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

This is why we're seeing a generational divide in feminism. Older feminists fought to have the same rights and responsibilities as men, in defiance the social norms that said women were too fragile to handle this freedom. To them, new feminism looks an awful lot like the hand-wringing over female fragility that they spent their own youth challenging.

It's also in large part due to second-wave feminism's strong rejections of trans women and sex workers. TERF and SWERF groups have caused a deep divide in feminist thought.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I think the commenting on attractiveness question is a bit too vague. There's a difference between "you look stunning tonight" and "you have a great ass baby" but both would fall under that category. It also shouldn't come to much of a surprise that it's the younger demographic that would be hearing the derogatory comments on attractiveness based on the maturity level of their male counterparts and scenarios. I mean, probably a lot more young women getting "nice tits" on Tinder than you're seeing at the local bingo hall. Even then, you're looking at the difference between ~30% for a 20 year old woman and ~25% for a 50 year old woman, not exactly a huge change in the age demographics in the USA.

And more young males from USA consider "asking to go for a drink" as harassment than woman, that sort of breaks the argument as being a woman's issue anyways.

I think this is the crux of the matter. Its all a bit too vague.

There are certain things that are obviously inappropriate, its the less obvious stuff that are going into vague territory where nobody is sure whats onside and what isnt.

[Erick Estrada]

So confusing. On one hand you have millions of women shelling out money to read or watch the 50 Shades of Grey movies/books (safe to say not a lot of men are reading these books or watching the movies) which essentially glorifies rape and abuse but commenting on say a new hair cut or asking a female to go out on a drink is considered sexual harassment? I feel sorry for young men today.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Once again I find it a bit odd that there is this reaction to instantly validate her experience. Is it possible that she genuinely thought she was assaulted? Sure. But it is also possible that a number of factors, a desire to fit into this movement, bitterness, anger, paranoia etc that could have played into her experience evolving from something mildly unpleasant to something terrifying.

Yours was the opposite. Instantly you went to "she has no credibility, we should give this no credence."

Also, trying to make it seem like she wants attention to fit into the movement (despite being anonymous) doesn't make sense when she already confronted Aziz about it in September, a full month before #MeToo popped up.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So confusing. On one hand you have millions of women shelling out money to read or watch the 50 Shades of Grey movies/books (safe to say not a lot of men are reading these books or watching the movies) which essentially glorifies rape and abuse but commenting on say a new hair cut or asking a female to go out on a drink is considered sexual harassment? I feel sorry for young men today.

Lets separate fantasy from reality here. Most woman might love watching 50 shades of Grey (God knows why) but in a real life level if that happened to them, it would be the "worst night of their lives"

You want mixed signals. When your on a date with a girl that you've dated a few times, ask her if she's seen 50 shades of Grey or read the book, and if they had, ask them if they liked it, and if they did ask them if actually doing it is something that they want to do.

You will get two opposite answers.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I'll take you word for it Erick Estrada if you know more than me about Fifty Shades

But I was under the impression Fifty Shades of Grey was about BDSM, not rape. Quite the difference and shouldn't at all be confused with another. If you consent to being tied up and spanked, all the power to you.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Yours was the opposite. Instantly you went to "she has no credibility, we should give this no credence."

Also, trying to make it seem like she wants attention to fit into the movement (despite being anonymous) doesn't make sense when she already confronted Aziz about it in September, a full month before #MeToo popped up.

My what is the opposite? I haven't said anything even remotely similar to what you are making up and pretending to attribute to me. That's an odd accusation to make from a post where I basically said we shouldn't rush to judgement. Yet here you are, rushing to judgement again. It is precisely this type of crap that ruins these discussions. You don't actually care about the discussion, you just want to blame someone and act holier than thou, while making up crap that I never said.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I'll take you word for it Erick Estrada if you know more than me about Fifty Shades

But I was under the impression Fifty Shades of Grey was about BDSM, not rape. Quite the difference and shouldn't at all be confused with another. If you consent to being tied up and spanked, all the power to you.

Well it was pretty much BDSM light, I'm sure the BDSM community probably thought that the movie was stupid

[Mazrim]

I honestly don't understand why the 50 Shades example is always brought up. Do we watch Game of Thrones because we want to be just like those people? Do teenagers play video games and suddenly want to drive around the city stealing other cars and running over people like in Grand Theft Auto? It's not too difficult to separate fantasy and reality here, and using that as a confirmation of how they really act in life is suspect.