@jordanbpeterson
9h9 hours ago
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With all the accusations of sex assault emerging (eg Louis CK) we are going to soon remember why sex was traditionally enshrined in marriage...
If my wife is in a situation with you in your hotel room or a bar feel free to ask. I don't recall a situation prior to this that involved going to a random persons house ringing the doorbell and asking to masturbate for them, but hey whatever rallies the troops.
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As an aside I'm surprised Louis CK was a known, successful comedian back then. I guess I was just blind to him as I thought he was relatively unknown until 2008ish.
Even in old youtube interviews (2000-2004) he seems more like a minor comedian doing stand up with little fanfare during the interview from audiences.
Yes, a middle aged boss asking a 20 year old junior employee if he can wank in front of her is harassment. No, it's not as bad as raping someone. It's still bad though. Yes employees can hook up without it being harassment. This was not that. What's harassment? Use common sense. If it involves a power dynamic and/or an unwanted advance, it's probably harassment.
Can we end this debate?
This kind of stuff is part of the problem.
Why do you feel the need to stifle discussion and insult people?
Not to mention your post isn’t even consistent for someone who is a know it all. How can you possibly manage wanted vs unwanted advances? Are you a precog?
These types of civil, respectful discussions should be encouraged. It’s real ####ty that some people use these type of events to feel morally superior and berate others. Why does anyone feel the need to take sides? What are you accomplishing?
As an aside I'm surprised Louis CK was a known, successful comedian back then. I guess I was just blind to him as I thought he was relatively unknown until 2008ish.
Even in old youtube interviews (2000-2004) he seems more like a minor comedian doing stand up with little fanfare during the interview from audiences.
He was not well known to the general public in 2002 but aspiring comedians would have known him as a veteran comedy writer, writing for the likes of Conan, Letterman, Dana Carvey and Chris Rock. For someone desperately trying to break into the business, Louis C.K. would seem like a god to them.
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This has me thinking today... with the diminishing availability of physical media, let's assume that in the future all content is distributed digitally.
As the public owns less and less content, they rely on digital services to provide it. The concept of owning another person's content won't exist.
So, after an offense is made (sexual assault, murder, who draws that line?), someone makes the decision to pull the artist's content from the online service. Consumers no longer have access to the content and have no backups. The online service has the only copy.
I suppose piracy would extend access to content but that only lasts as long as the concept of ownership.
In 50 years, maybe they'll search all media for their version of Louis CK and delete it all (as HBO has done today). And we'll only have our memories, no access to any of their content.
Well, depends on who owns not only the product itself but the distribution rights as well. I know Louis C.K.'s own production company produced his two TV series and if he sold all rights to them in perpetuity, he would have already been paid well for them. But Louis C.K.'s production company also produces stuff that Louis distributes himself on his website (like Horace and Pete, and stand-up performances), so those shows will always be available as long as Louis C.K. wants to make them available.
I think some folks are defensive because they like Louis C.K.'s work. I personally don't see anything wrong with liking an artist's work but still acknowledging that they are a terrible human being. I love Woody Allen's film's (particularly his output between 1977 to around 1995) and his personal transgressions will not make me love his movies any less. History is full of great artists who were #######s in real life. If the world only accepted the creative works of morally upstanding people, it would be a pretty boring world.
I think some folks are defensive because they like Louis C.K.'s work. I personally don't see anything wrong with liking an artist's work but still acknowledging that they are a terrible human being. I love Woody Allen's film's (particularly his output between 1977 to around 1995) and his personal transgressions will not make me love his movies any less. History is full of great artists who were #######s in real life. If the world only accepted the creative works of morally upstanding people, it would be a pretty boring world.
I think people have been making substantive arguments completely divorced of any "admiration" for Louis CK.
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Where were all the defenders of Harvey Weinstein when he was asking women to watch him wank and/or bathe? I bet Weinstein wishes he could tell good jokes.
Weinstein allegedly did much worse and more systematically.
IN the case of CK it sounds like it wasn't rooted in a power dynamic, even though it falls into that category. He hasn't been accused of threatening peoples livelihoods or trying to hush rumors with settlements etc.. He fully acknowledges his actions and the fact that even if it wasn't intended as an assertion of power thats what it is given his status in the community.
Weinstein has been reported to use this conduct to threaten people's careers and personal well-being and as basically a right of passage for working for/with him. CK is a perv, Weinstein is a predator.
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I think some folks are defensive because they like Louis C.K.'s work. I personally don't see anything wrong with liking an artist's work but still acknowledging that they are a terrible human being. I love Woody Allen's film's (particularly his output between 1977 to around 1995) and his personal transgressions will not make me love his movies any less. History is full of great artists who were #######s in real life. If the world only accepted the creative works of morally upstanding people, it would be a pretty boring world.
The thing is I don't believe Louis CK is a terrible human being, and I don't even care for his work that much. did he act inappropriately? Yes, of course he did. But this is far from what Woody Allen did, and is a weak comparison to other big names in hollywood who have been accused of actual assault.
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Where were all the defenders of Harvey Weinstein when he was asking women to watch him wank and/or bathe? I bet Weinstein wishes he could tell good jokes.
Could it be possible there's different degrees of severity between what the two did?
If my wife is in a situation with you in your hotel room or a bar feel free to ask. I don't recall a situation prior to this that involved going to a random persons house ringing the doorbell and asking to masturbate for them, but hey whatever rallies the troops.
Where does she work then?
1 of the 5 incidents occurred in a bar, back to hotel room environment. The phone one I'm unclear where it occurred. The other three were in the workplace.
and if she says yes, then regrets it later, I'm sure you'd be okay with being publicly outed as a predator?
I think some nuance in how we think of these people is required as their are different degrees here. But yes if I ask a coworker if I can have sex eith them at work I have committed a crime.
And in two of the instances the person said no.
My argument isn't that CK is Weinstein. It is his behaviour at work was criminal. The second discussion of what do you do with these people going forward is separate from if what he did was a crime.
And if we can't agree that asking someone at work to #### them without any other pretense is criminal we got a long way to go.
I think some nuance in how we think of these people is required as their are different degrees here. But yes if I ask a coworker if I can have sex eith them at work I have committed a crime.
And in two of the instances the person said no.
My argument isn't that CK is Weinstein. It is his behaviour at work was criminal. The second discussion of what do you do with these people going forward is separate from if what he did was a crime.
And if we can't agree that asking someone at work to #### them without any other pretense is criminal we got a long way to go.
I can't agree to that. I thought consenting adults could have sex. Asking for consent is courteous. I mean, you can't just take it, that I'm clear on. Now you can't ask for it without that being criminal? You've lost me.
I think some nuance in how we think of these people is required as their are different degrees here. But yes if I ask a coworker if I can have sex eith them at work I have committed a crime.
It's a grey area. I know many people that have met their partners at work. Some after hooking up at work functions. I was my wife's subordinate when we started dating, better lock her up and brand her as a sexual predator now.
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I can't agree to that. I thought consenting adults could have sex. Asking for consent is courteous. I mean, you can't just take it, that I'm clear on. Now you can't ask for it without that being criminal? You've lost me.
You can't in a work place ask to #### your coworker at work in the office without any other relationship. If you ask to #### your coworker at work your should be fired.
You can't walk up to a stranger on the street and say Nice shoes wanna ####?
