Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[Barnes]

Since we seem to be in a new news holding pattern, I went through all of the arena related threads and STH holder info threads to look at all the things Ken King has publicly said over the years starting all the way back to 2006 to the day CalgaryNEXT was announced and copied relevant comments as to the status of the project with regards to the building, financing, discussion with the City etc.

Anyone interested in it? it is verrrrrry long. Should I create a new thread? It will have to be multiple posts.

[GullFoss]

Create a new thread IMO

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Since we seem to be in a new news holding pattern, I went through all of the arena related threads and STH holder info threads to look at all the things Ken King has publicly said over the years starting all the way back to 2006 to the day CalgaryNEXT was announced and copied relevant comments as to the status of the project with regards to the building, financing, discussion with the City etc.

Anyone interested in it? it is verrrrrry long. Should I create a new thread? It will have to be multiple posts.

you deserve some serious credit as I attempted a similar project and git absolutely fed up after what I imagine was being a third into the way if the project.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Since we seem to be in a new news holding pattern, I went through all of the arena related threads and STH holder info threads to look at all the things Ken King has publicly said over the years starting all the way back to 2006 to the day CalgaryNEXT was announced and copied relevant comments as to the status of the project with regards to the building, financing, discussion with the City etc.

Anyone interested in it? it is verrrrrry long. Should I create a new thread? It will have to be multiple posts.

Holy hell, are you serious? That would have taken the patience of a Saint.

New thread. Definitely new thread.

[puckedoff]

In my opinion, a replacement of the Saddledome in its current location is expensive, and not a venture either the Flames or the City should undertake singlehandedly. The real value from these projects comes from the improvement/development of surrounding areas (yes, like the Ice District) and that simply won't happen in the Dome's current location. The trouble here of course is that we don't have a dilapidated area near downtown that can easily be improved by building a rink in it, so the marginal improvement of an area seems small. Ultimately, I'm not sure how this development as proposed makes sense for either side.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Since we seem to be in a new news holding pattern, I went through all of the arena related threads and STH holder info threads to look at all the things Ken King has publicly said over the years starting all the way back to 2006 to the day CalgaryNEXT was announced and copied relevant comments as to the status of the project with regards to the building, financing, discussion with the City etc.

Anyone interested in it? it is verrrrrry long. Should I create a new thread? It will have to be multiple posts.

Wow I can't wait for this and given how long you say it is I'd hate to see it lost in this thread.

[Backlunds_socks]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Since we seem to be in a new news holding pattern, I went through all of the arena related threads and STH holder info threads to look at all the things Ken King has publicly said over the years starting all the way back to 2006 to the day CalgaryNEXT was announced and copied relevant comments as to the status of the project with regards to the building, financing, discussion with the City etc.

Anyone interested in it? it is verrrrrry long. Should I create a new thread? It will have to be multiple posts.

Well, thanks Barnes, I'm pretty pumped to see the results of your labor..

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by jammies

So your question is essentially "If the Flames funded their arena in a completely different way than they've proposed, and where they pay for the whole of it by borrowing the money, who would be funding the arena?"

No, my point is that they are almost the exact same thing. Owners funding that portion of their contribution through debt and servicing that debt from revenues.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by GGG

It's because you keep believing that this is a Tax. It isn't. It is a method to circumvent HRR.

Exactly. We're it not for dodging HRR, it's exactly the same as the Flames saying that x amount from every ticket to every event in the building will go directly toward that portion of loan repayment. And yes, every other business does operate that way. But the Flames won't, because when it comes to the revenue from the NHL team, half that amount would go to the players instead. So the 'tax' circumvents that.

If who guarantees the loan is your beef, that's fine. To me it makes no difference if it's RBC, City, Province or whomever, but I get that ymmv on that one. Disputing the rest is puzzling.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

No, my point is that they are almost the exact same thing. Owners funding that portion of their contribution through debt and servicing that debt from revenues.

No. Ticket tax is not the same as revenue. Nor is borrowing from bond markets - guaranteed by the City to get a very low rate - the same as borrowing from the bank. Therefore, they are not "almost the exact same thing."

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Locke

Why should it take any time at all? The City released their plan the next day on a one-page infographic.

What did the CSEC show City Council? Show us that. It should be done already, just release it.

Remember, the Flames wanted this. They're the ones that went Public, they're the ones that forced the City's hand, they're the ones that engaged the media. They should have been ready.

More amateur hour BS from CSEC.

What happened to these guys? They used to be one of the most tightly and Professionally Run Organizations around and right now they're a punchline.

King tried to feed the napkin through the copier and it got jammed.

[GaiJin]

Thinking back to 2013, what all got replaced because of the floods in the 'dome? It's not like everything is original in that building.

[calculoso]

From: News Talk 770 <insiders@newstalk770.com>
Date: Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 7:40 AM
Subject: Calgary Flames ownership releases arena proposal details


The Calgary Flames say they were prepared to contribute $275 million dollars upfront to the city's Victoria Park vision that includes a new arena. The team's proposal also included $225 million in funding from a community revitalization levy.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

https://www.nhl.com/flames/fans/arena

[calf]

My God...the Flames really are saying they are paying 120% of the arena...their share plus property taxes. You can't say "we have to pay this expense" to pay back the city and conveniently ignore that you keep the rest of the earnings from the arena. That's not how this works.

[kermitology]

As a result, after over two years of discussions, we see absolutely no basis upon which a new arena agreement can be achieved with the City, and we have concluded that there is no point to continue the pursuit of a new arena in Calgary

This just rubs me the wrong way. The presented timeline is goofy too. Basically they took 7 years to design CalgaryNEXT and they’re pretty much sulking over that not working.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

I guess they're not going to stop using Edmonton as a comparable. That's too bad, because they're not going to get the same deal. They should just stop bringing Edmonton up.

[Svartsengi]

Time for Murray Edwards to sell the team to a local owner. Stay on your rock Murray!

[calgaryblood]

we have concluded that there is no point to continue the pursuit of a new arena in Calgary. Many, including us, believe Calgary is a terrific place for NHL hockey and we certainly have great fans. As such, we will strive to operate, as we have for the past 34 years, in the Saddledome for as long as we believe it is feasible.

Empty threats once again. Such a pathetically written article with terrible graphics.

Did the Calgary Next proposal maker whip that up in 15 minutes?

[bob-loblaw]

King on 770 right now. Refusing to answer questions from Gord Gillies. Sounds even worse than last week.