Jacob Markstrom (is better than Cam Talbot)

[Enoch Root]

Talbot is 3 years older and nowhere near as good. Let it go.

[TheChief]

I didn't like Mcdavids first goal last night. I just feel for how tall he is, he should have had that one. You'd like to see him have that big save off of JP at that moment in the game...


Flames looked gassed, and they need to up their work rate if they wanna make the playoffs this year.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Talbot has a career .915 to JMs .910

Oh, and he played here. So he is someone people are kind of familiar with, a bit relevant

Plus when talking $ vs performance, he is better

No use discussing further. You love Markstrom and we all hope it works out

Huh? I have to love Markstrom because I’m bringing some context? Stop acting like a clown with this and the “cherry picked” stuff. Your application to be a mod isnt going to go anywhere if you’re taking pointless jabs big guy.

Talbot also has a .908 over the last four years compared to Markstrom’s .912. But again, one guy is above average and the other guy is Markstrom? Seems smart.

Saying we should have stuck with Talbot or that Markstrom is getting paid “elite” money are just dumb takes, is all.

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don’t know about games played being the measuring stick for value.

It’s a way to keep comparisons close. A guy who you can play more than 60% of the season is obviously valuable, but it’s mostly because you don’t want to compare guys who play 30 games in a season or have been a starter for 1-2 years against guys who have played a ton.

[TheChief]

Flames need to do a better at bearing down on the rebounds. Its one thing to get shots but make sure your swarming the area ready to pounce on any second opportunity that could arise. I think that's how we are going to score most our goals this year, its not going to be a one timer or a snipe. I think we have the players to do that too.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Huh? I have to love Markstrom because I’m bringing some context? Stop acting like a clown with this and the “cherry picked” stuff. Your application to be a mod isnt going to go anywhere if you’re taking pointless jabs big guy.

Talbot also has a .908 over the last four years compared to Markstrom’s .912. But again, one guy is above average and the other guy is Markstrom? Seems smart.

Saying we should have stuck with Talbot or that Markstrom is getting paid “elite” money are just dumb takes, is all.



It’s a way to keep comparisons close. A guy who you can play more than 60% of the season is obviously valuable, but it’s mostly because you don’t want to compare guys who play 30 games in a season or have been a starter for 1-2 years against guys who have played a ton.

He is 8th highest paid in the league and just 1 M shy of the Vezina winner
Yeah, I expect above average. He wasn’t last year . And has only been significantly above league average once in his career

So just compare his salary to his performance and it’s bad. That is supported by the data. Full stop. It is really very simple.

What’s better, paying 3.x or 6 for essentially the same thing?

And your ‘mod app’ #### - If your memory and reading comprehension are at the level of an average grown adult, you would realize how idiotic of a statement that is. Dumb takes, indeed

[gvitaly]

I remember that off-season quite well. Markstrom was undoubtedly the best goalie available that off-season. It was also a year after Bob got $10M per, but due to COVID and the salary cap not increasing the Flames were able to lock him up at a good number. If you remember EDM was after him too, so you prevented your rivals from getting a number 1 goalie.

At the time I was hoping they'd keep Talbot, and spend their cap on Hall/Toffoli instead. Talbot was not the problem with the Flames, but the fact that you didn't know what you were getting from your goalie night in and night out was. The last game in Dallas sealed it. Especially after Elliot, Smith, whomever ####ting the bed in big games. Management figured they wanted stability in the position instead of relying on a tandem, and they got the best guy available.

Markstrom is an amazing goalie, especially if he has time to set up. He has a hard time stopping pucks after moving side to side, but he is very good at finding pucks, stopping deflections, and he is decent on breakaways. Handling the puck is also not one of his strength.

[dino7c]

Markstrom has only ever played for the rebuilding Canucks and the debacle Flames of last season. It's a minor miracle his numbers are as good as they are.

Goaltending numbers are partly a team stat

Do you guys think it was harder to play goal for the Wild last season or for the Flames?

Talbots backup also happened to have spectacular numbers

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Markstrom has only ever played for the rebuilding Canucks and the debacle Flames of last season. It's a minor miracle his numbers are as good as they are.

Goaltending numbers are partly a team stat

Do you guys think it was harder to play goal for the Wild last season or for the Flames?

Talbots backup also happened to have spectacular numbers

Look at Luongo’s career stats

That’s a good goalie on a bunch of varying teams

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

He is 8th highest paid in the league and just 1 M shy of the Vezina winner
Yeah, I expect above average. He wasn’t last year . And has only been significantly above league average once in his career

So just compare his salary to his performance and it’s bad. That is supported by the data. Full stop. It is really very simple.

What’s better, paying 3.x or 6 for essentially the same thing?

And your ‘mod app’ #### - If your memory and reading comprehension are at the level of an average grown adult, you would realize how idiotic of a statement that is. Dumb takes, indeed

Yeah, he’s also right in the range of Martin Jones, Frederik Andersen, Jonathan Quick, and John Gibson. How did that crew do last year? Pretty stellar, right? Above average, would you say?

You’re just making noise. Supported by the data? Nah, it isn’t. You’re (in your best Morgan Freeman voice, I’m sure) whining about how Gibson isn’t a fair comparison because of his stats 5+ years ago and how Talbot is a better goaltender because of his stats 5+ years ago. I can’t stop you from using that data, but it looks awfully silly.

I keep telling you though man, the reading comprehension/idiot stuff just ain’t going to fly when you’re begging to be a mod. You’re going to have to raise your game if you want to be the next Jiri. Keep trying bud. Kill em with kindness!

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Look at Luongo’s career stats

That’s a good goalie on a bunch of varying teams

Exactly he actually played for a few good ones, thanks for agreeing with me

Markstrom has never played for a team that played well in front of him...hopefully this is the year and last night is the outlier


You guys can call me a homer or whatever...I thought he was the best goalie in the league when he was on the Vancouver team I hate (its on record here)

4th in Vezina voting and ranked 6th in the executive poll going into last year, they were looking at the same stats as you guys...Something tells me NHL execs are not Flames homers. Every network listed him as the best goalie FA.


Funny thing is if the Flames actually start playing well defensively you guys are going to say its all the team lol, people are already giving themselves that out.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^^ Pepsi, my view of Markstrom is dead simple, based in reality, and supported by data

Jakob Markstrom is paid well above average. 8th in the league

Statistically, he is average over his career, and there is only one (1) season in which he has been a decent bit above average. In his entire career and he is North of 30

Even here, he was disappointing last year

Talbot put up a .919 here and Markstrom followed up with a .904 (while Talbot put up a .915 elsewhere). While making 60 cents on the dollar. It is ####ing comical that we are discussing *how much* better Markstrom is.

What is confusing or even controversial about this?

####ing silly is what it is

…

And Dino, I agree, he will do way better under Sutter

But to me, he still has to prove himself - and there is a lot of work to do there - to be called elite

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

^^ Pepsi, my view of Markstrom is dead simple, based in reality, and supported by data

Jakob Markstrom is paid well above average. 8th in the league

Statistically, he is average over his career, and there is only one (1) season in which he has been a decent bit above average. In his entire career and he is North of 30

Even here, he was disappointing last year

Talbot put up a .919 here and Markstrom followed up with a .904 (while Talbot put up a .915 elsewhere). While making 60 cents on the dollar. It is ####ing comical that we are discussing *how much* better Markstrom is.

What is confusing or even controversial about this?

####ing silly is what it is

Going into last season the entire hockey world rated Markstrom higher...do you honestly think Talbot would have had as good of numbers in Calgary last season? It was a debacle of a year from almost every player. Plus they played the leagues top two scorers (by a mile) 10 times out of 56 games.

Talbot is doing well, Wild also make it a lot easier on him than the Flames have on Markstrom so far...it takes watching one game to figure that out

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Going into last season the entire hockey world rated Markstrom higher...do you honestly think Talbot would have had as good of numbers in Calgary last season? It was a debacle of a year from almost every player. Plus they played the leagues top two scorers (by a mile) 10 times out of 56 games.

Honestly, yes, I think Talbot is a good goalie

I did not like Markstrom’s rebound control last year, and sometime questioned save selection. I think he benefits from his size for sure but am not in love with blocking style goalies

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Honestly, yes, I think Talbot is a good goalie

I did not like Markstrom’s rebound control last year, and sometime questioned save selection. I think he benefits from his size for sure but am not in love with blocking style goalies

You think Talbot would have put up a .915 in Calgary last season? So Calgary played as good as the Wild defensively last season is what you are saying.

I say not a chance

I think Talbot is good too, Markstrom is better and has a higher ceiling


The last time Talbot played for a bad defensive team his numbers where in the .800s (Edmonton/Philly)

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by dino7c

You think Talbot would have put up a .915 in Calgary last season? So Calgary played as good as the Wild defensively last season is what you are saying.

I say not a chance

I think Talbot is good too, Markstrom is better and has a higher ceiling


The last time Talbot played for a bad defensive team his numbers where in the .800s (Edmonton/Philly)

Edmonton is a special kind of no good which I can only assume is expected to deviate statistically

They broke him temporarily

[OILFAN #81]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The last time Talbot played for a bad defensive team his numbers where in the .800s (Edmonton/Philly)

Talbot did finish 4th in Vezina trophy voting though while on the Oilers too which has to count for something. He was outstanding that season.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Edmonton is a special kind of no good which I can only assume is expected to deviate statistically

They broke him temporarily

Vancouver was the same or worse many of those years IMO

They still are really although a bit better, Demko stand on his head now or they lose

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Vancouver was the same or worse many of those years IMO

They still are really although a bit better, Demko stand on his head now or they lose

If you look at Miller vs Markstrom, Markstrom vs Demko, it’s a scatter plot He showed to be better one year.

I mentioned Loungo, he played on some bad Florida teams and put up gaudy stats

[dino7c]

Markstom was Vancouver's MVP three years in a row...not 1

Anyway we have made our points...lets see where this season ends up

I don't want any copouts giving Sutter all the credit if your arguments and the OP's don't age well

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Markstom was Vancouver's MVP three years in a row...not 1

Yeah but he was .006 above league average for one

Goalies on crappy teams get stars often. Remember Freddy?

The conversation I thought we are having is about elite goalies