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Old 10-17-2021, 10:18 PM   #6381
RichieRich
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If you live in Calgary your real estate value is tied to O+G. Depending on your job it is to a varying degree you job is dependant on O+G. So your question is should you become even less diversified?

If you are an index investor itís generally because you donít believe you have the ability to pick stocks or donít have the ability to pick someone who will out perform the market. So if that is the case I donít see why you would change strategy.
Definitely the Calgary housing market is tied to employment and the O&G sector. To think otherwise is naive; although it's also connected to other factors. If you talked with 100 O&G-employed people you'd find a bell-curve from those that are 100% invested in O&G to 0% (except for their jobs), and of course everything in between. Investing in only your comfort level is both a blessing and a curse... we tend to overstate our own knowledge and understand internal (O&G) risk, yet overstate external risk. Human nature.



For the vast majority of investors the data is out there that picking individual stocks or commodities really doesn't work out well, and that includes many financial advisors. Interestingly I came across the following article which provides a little basis and comparison to quantify this:
https://www.greaterfool.ca/2021/10/16/meteors/
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Old 10-17-2021, 10:24 PM   #6382
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It isnít a paternalistic judgement. It isnít being proposed to incentivize spending on essentials.
What is essential?

just remember in answering this question you are being paternalistic.
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Old 10-18-2021, 07:39 AM   #6383
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What is essential?

just remember in answering this question you are being paternalistic.
Well we have a pretty solid working definition already. Iím not sure why this seems to be so controversial to you though. Weíve had the GST in Canada for a few decades and always had exemptions for goods that are considered essential. It seems to work fine and while I havenít searched for it, there doesnít seem to be an uproar about it being levied on items that are essential and penalizing the working poor.
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Old 10-18-2021, 10:48 AM   #6384
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Well we have a pretty solid working definition already. I’m not sure why this seems to be so controversial to you though. We’ve had the GST in Canada for a few decades and always had exemptions for goods that are considered essential. It seems to work fine and while I haven’t searched for it, there doesn’t seem to be an uproar about it being levied on items that are essential and penalizing the working poor.
Groceries? what what about candy/pop. maybe some hippys that don't understand nutrition take over and except organic food.
Clothing? is there a difference between $15 jeans, and $300 jeans?
Heat/Electric? is there a set sqft per person once this becomes unessential
Water?
Gas? or maybe we say bus passes are good enough?
Phone/Internet? nah communication isn't vital to participation in modern society
Home Appliances?


Essentials can cut pretty deep depending on your prospective, much deeper than GST accounts for. The working definition we have makes value judgements place buying bread higher than the value of getting to work, or dressing well enough to get a good job. Any way you look at it it's paternalistic. (and I support paternalism at times, I'm just saying to make exceptions you need to make value judgements, and there is a lot of room for disagreement).

Last edited by #-3; 10-18-2021 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 10-18-2021, 11:01 AM   #6385
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Groceries? what what about candy/pop. maybe some hippys that don't understand nutrition take over and except organic food.
Clothing? is there a difference between $15 jeans, and $300 jeans?
Heat/Electric? is there a set sqft per person once this becomes unessential
Water?
Gas? or maybe we say bus passes are good enough?
Phone/Internet? nah communication isn't vital to participation in modern society
Home Appliances?


Essentials can cut pretty deep depending on your prospective, much deeper than GST accounts for. The working definition we have makes value judgements place buying bread higher than the value of getting to work, or dressing well enough to get a good job. Any way you look at it it's paternalistic. (and I support paternalism at times, I'm just saying to make exceptions you need to make value judgements, and there is a lot of room for disagreement).
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1. The supply of basic groceries, which includes most supplies of food and beverages marketed for human consumption (including sweetening agents, seasonings and other ingredients to be mixed with or used in the preparation of such food or beverages), is zero-rated. However, certain categories of foodstuffs, for example, carbonated beverages, candies and confectionery, and snack foods are taxable. If a product's tax status is in doubt, the CRA will consider the manner in which the product is displayed, labelled, packaged, invoiced and advertised to determine its tax status.
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-age...#_Toc155586101


We already do this. As to the other items, that's why there is a rebate for low income people.
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Old 10-18-2021, 11:20 AM   #6386
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https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-age...#_Toc155586101


We already do this. As to the other items, that's why there is a rebate for low income people.
Yes, that is my point. We have made value judgements, it's paternalistic.

Sales tax exceptions are paternalistic, and do not erase the regressive effects of sales taxes.
And as to my early point, rebate programs often trap the poor in debt cycles, because time is the most important thing about money.
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Old 10-18-2021, 11:28 AM   #6387
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Yes, that is my point. We have made value judgements, it's paternalistic.

Sales tax exceptions are paternalistic, and do not erase the regressive effects of sales taxes.
And as to my early point, rebate programs often trap the poor in debt cycles, because time is the most important thing about money.
I guess it depends if you see the rebate as being paid out after you already paid it, or before. You could see it as "here's your extra GST money you may spend over the next 3 months." I think for the people collecting it, they actually receive more of a rebate than they spend on it, but I could have that wrong. In that case a sales tax would actually benefit them, not be a detriment. But we'd have to look for numbers on that.
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Old 10-18-2021, 11:46 AM   #6388
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Yes, that is my point. We have made value judgements, it's paternalistic.

Sales tax exceptions are paternalistic, and do not erase the regressive effects of sales taxes.
And as to my early point, rebate programs often trap the poor in debt cycles, because time is the most important thing about money.
You seem fixated on the paternalistic idea here. Do you think an income tax is more/less paternalistic than a sales tax with exemptions? I hate to point out the obvious here, but government is paternalistic no matter what. They make all kinds of decisions on behalf of their citizens, and in some cases that is whether the citizens like it or not...
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Old 10-18-2021, 08:25 PM   #6389
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I guess it depends if you see the rebate as being paid out after you already paid it, or before. You could see it as "here's your extra GST money you may spend over the next 3 months." I think for the people collecting it, they actually receive more of a rebate than they spend on it, but I could have that wrong. In that case a sales tax would actually benefit them, not be a detriment. But we'd have to look for numbers on that.
Yes, that's what a rebate is, it's not a prebate.
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Old 10-18-2021, 08:31 PM   #6390
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You seem fixated on the paternalistic idea here. Do you think an income tax is more/less paternalistic than a sales tax with exemptions? I hate to point out the obvious here, but government is paternalistic no matter what. They make all kinds of decisions on behalf of their citizens, and in some cases that is whether the citizens like it or not...
I somewhat agree, but just saying exemptions are not a cure all for all of the inherently regressive aspects of a sales tax, they are still terrible taxes that do the opposite of what most people claim they do. The biggest reason because you are deciding what people need for them.

I don't mind governments making those choices with non essential things or universal access programs out of general revenues. But when you are making those choices regarding person spending on essential goods, I think you are overreaching.
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