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Old 11-05-2018, 11:45 AM   #81
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Definitely wrong on this trade, way wrong
Hanifin is a much better fit for what the Flames needed than Hamilton. Dougie point production came at a cost.
Hanifin plays tougher and is just as great of a skater as Hamilton but he is much more comfortable while the puck is in the Flames end.
I still can't believe Hanifin's age to play with such poise already.
He seems like a very easy to coach D man too.
When he is on the ice as a fan there is little to worry about.
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Old 11-05-2018, 12:17 PM   #82
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I just feel way more comfortable with the defence as a whole than I have in a long time. Up until this season, there was always at lest 1 pairing that made me nervous to have our there. This season is completely different. Feels like there’s a confidence that any pairing can hold their own and even generate offence for the flames. I like how every pairing has a dynamic skater and puck-mover on it.


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Old 11-05-2018, 12:29 PM   #83
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I just feel way more comfortable with the defence as a whole than I have in a long time. Up until this season, there was always at lest 1 pairing that made me nervous to have our there. This season is completely different. Feels like there’s a confidence that any pairing can hold their own and even generate offence for the flames. I like how every pairing has a dynamic skater and puck-mover on it.


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Agree Andersson and Valimaki have been a treat to watch as a rookie third pairing.
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Old 11-05-2018, 01:05 PM   #84
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Teams with bad forwards need their d to score.

Teams with good forwards need their d to defend.
Teams with good forwards and good D need their G to make a gawdam save.
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Old 11-05-2018, 05:52 PM   #85
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Teams with bad forwards need their d to score.

Teams with good forwards need their d to defend.
Good teams defend as a team.

Proper support and back check by forwards is always overlooked when people look at team defense, and the defenders get too much credit and blame for defense.

Look at the Flames the last two weeks. Biggest difference IMO is the forwards actually committing on the back check, and not flying the zone giving better outlets to the dmen.

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Old 11-06-2018, 09:07 AM   #86
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Good teams defend as a team.

Proper support and back check by forwards is always overlooked when people look at team defense, and the defenders get too much credit and blame for defense.

Look at the Flames the last two weeks. Biggest difference IMO is the forwards actually committing on the back check, and not flying the zone giving better outlets to the dmen.
Right.

But have the flames been missing goals from their defense?

This year the flames have 4 goals from their defenders, last year this time they had 8.

Do they need their d to score, or does that suddenly not matter as much when the forwards are capable?

Brodie and stone are tied for second place for D in points this year with 4. Has anyone noticed?
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:12 AM   #87
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Right.

But have the flames been missing goals from their defense?

This year the flames have 4 goals from their defenders, last year this time they had 8.

Do they need their d to score, or does that suddenly not matter as much when the forwards are capable?

Brodie and stone are tied for second place for D in points this year with 4. Has anyone noticed?
I don't really disagree with your point (that they don't need as much offense from the D because the forwards are producing more), however, the D are on pace for more points (though fewer goals) than last year.

All small sample sizes though.
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:16 AM   #88
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My view on the D core is that it is more appropriately balanced. They pinch and contribute to the offense, but they aren't just about the offense.

At the same time, the forwards are producing, but IMO they are also playing better team defense at the same time. I would argue that, since the PIT game, Monahan and Gaudreau have played the best defensively that I have ever seen from them.

Good teams play well - offensively and defensively.
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:19 AM   #89
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I don't really disagree with your point (that they don't need as much offense from the D because the forwards are producing more), however, the D are on pace for more points (though fewer goals) than last year.

All small sample sizes though.
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My view on the D core is that it is more appropriately balanced. They pinch and contribute to the offense, but they aren't just about the offense.

At the same time, the forwards are producing, but IMO they are also playing better team defense at the same time. I would argue that, since the PIT game, Monahan and Gaudreau have played the best defensively that I have ever seen from them.

Good teams play well - offensively and defensively.
A lot of this is that the Flames are better at transitioning and getting the puck up to the forwards. In the past they played a much slower style, they'd set up in the offensive zone, and then had the defence float in for a shot (especially Hamilton). Now the play is up ice fast enough where the prime chances go to the forwards before the opposition is fully set.
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:32 AM   #90
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A lot of this is that the Flames are better at transitioning and getting the puck up to the forwards. In the past they played a much slower style, they'd set up in the offensive zone, and then had the defence float in for a shot (especially Hamilton). Now the play is up ice fast enough where the prime chances go to the forwards before the opposition is fully set.
Yes, the transitional play has been much better this year. And I think there are a bunch of reasons for that :

1) Giordano plays more 'up' with Brodie as his partner.
2) Brodie is more effective, and a better passer, on the right side
3) Hamonic is contributing and transitioning more this year
4) Hanifin's first pass is very good
5) Andersson gets it up ice quickly
6) so does Valimaki

The D, as a group, are better transitionally than the group last year.

Plus, Peters has them playing a much more up-tempo game than the D-to-D garbage we watched last year.

So many good things going on, and lots of reasons why the offense is up. I think it is misleading to just dismiss the D from that, because they are contributing to it in several ways.
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:37 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root View Post
My view on the D core is that it is more appropriately balanced. They pinch and contribute to the offense, but they aren't just about the offense.

At the same time, the forwards are producing, but IMO they are also playing better team defense at the same time. I would argue that, since the PIT game, Monahan and Gaudreau have played the best defensively that I have ever seen from them.

Good teams play well - offensively and defensively.
Pretty much.

I broke the season into parts.

Ignored the first game of the season in Vancouver (odd odd game)

So game 2 through the Washington game and then the last four games where the team is playing very differently.

Monahan and Gaudreau have certainly been noticeable.

CF%
Before 46%
After 61%

CA60
Before 61.5
After 48.5

HDCF%
Before 36%
After 61%

HDCA60
Before 19
After 10.8
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:39 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Enoch Root View Post
Yes, the transitional play has been much better this year. And I think there are a bunch of reasons for that :

1) Giordano plays more 'up' with Brodie as his partner.
2) Brodie is more effective, and a better passer, on the right side
3) Hamonic is contributing and transitioning more this year
4) Hanifin's first pass is very good
5) Andersson gets it up ice quickly
6) so does Valimaki

The D, as a group, are better transitionally than the group last year.

Plus, Peters has them playing a much more up-tempo game than the D-to-D garbage we watched last year.

So many good things going on, and lots of reasons why the offense is up. I think it is misleading to just dismiss the D from that, because they are contributing to it in several ways.
All I'd add to that is Peters gap management system. The D play tighter to the forwards which helps in pinning the opposition in their own zone, or forcing them to dump it out which quickly transitions into bringing it back in.

Early in the season this also resulted in a lot of odd man rushes against and high quality scoring chances. That seems to have been alleviated in the last 5 games with better reads, and the forwards playing a more responsible F3 aware game.
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:50 AM   #93
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All I'd add to that is Peters gap management system. The D play tighter to the forwards which helps in pinning the opposition in their own zone, or forcing them to dump it out which quickly transitions into bringing it back in.

Early in the season this also resulted in a lot of odd man rushes against and high quality scoring chances. That seems to have been alleviated in the last 5 games with better reads, and the forwards playing a more responsible F3 aware game.
Absolutely. The improvement in gap control is substantial - possibly the biggest improvement in the team over last year.

The weird thing about that is that, when they hired him, one of Gulutzan's primary discussion points was gap control and that he wanted the D to play them tight in all three zones (I was so excited about that). But then in practice, their gap control was BRUTAL in all three zones. Such a let down, and so misleading from his initial comments.

It is so much better under Peters.
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:54 AM   #94
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Hamilton used to take a lot of hooking penalties, which drove me bonkers. And when a dman takes that many hooking penalties, it's usually an indication that he's constantly getting walked around or losing puck battles.

Hanifin may not produce more, but he's a lot more sound defensively. And he pairs well with Hamonic. The fact that Hanifin is younger, still has more upside to go, and is locked up longer is just the icing on the cake for me.
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Old 11-06-2018, 10:15 AM   #95
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I have really enjoyed the D play this year, not including many of Brodie's early season blunders. I think all three pairs compliment each other very well and are playing great away from the puck.


Many of you disliked Ryan Huska as the head coach in Stockton and I always felt he was underrated. I feel Huska has done a great job with the defence this year and
think he needs a lot more of the credit with how the defence as a whole is playing.
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Old 11-06-2018, 06:11 PM   #96
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Dougie has a lethal shot and great offensive instincts, which is nothing to stuff at. But his work ethic and defense game were sketchy. He was carried by Giordano and Chara his entire career up until now in CAR. I'd say hes a No.2 Offensive D-man.

Hanafin looks like a future No.2 to me, right now hes probably a No.4. Hes still so young though and has some warts in his game, especially defensively but has fantastic skating and hockey sense.

Right now I'd rather have Dougie simply because he's the better player right now, but I could see Hanifin becoming a stalwart in the next few years, hopefully Gio has been helping him with his game.

Flames look really solid on D.

Hanifin, Valimaki and Andersson are all so young and already look like top 4 guys

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Old 11-06-2018, 10:53 PM   #97
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Carolina has definitely slowed down. Taking a look at their boards they don't seem overly enamoured with Hamilton:
.........
Biggest disappointment of the season thus far. The guy hasn't done anything to stand out as an elite (or even above average) defenseman, let alone being worth what we traded for him.

If we needed someone to take a slapshot 3 miles off the net, we should have tried to convince Corvo to return.
.........
Yeah I've been massively disappointed in him. For all the **** Faulk gets around here, I don't see what Hamilton brings that sets him apart as so much better.
.........
Hamilton has only been here for around a quarter of a season. He'll turn into the next whipping boy for sure if he plays out his contract here without a complete 180 to his game.
.........
I don't think it'll matter whether he's on the first or second PP unit. He (like the rest of the players) aren't generating anything on them.

And he's paired with Slavin at even-strength to cover his defensive weakness. Or try to, at least. As evidenced by tonight.
.........
There is also nothing elite about his game at all.

He looks like a run-of-the-mill NHL defenseman out there so far.

It's sad when Brett Pesce shows more offensive flashes of brilliance than Hamilton, at least puckhandling and puckmoving wise.
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Old 11-06-2018, 11:41 PM   #98
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Bouwmeester had a lot more freedom in Florida’s system, where here he was to fall in line with the likes of Phaneuf.

Hamilton was always someone that watching you just never felt totally comfortable with as someone playing defense. Thus the pairing with Gio last year to remove some of the confidence issues on the defensive end.

Bottom line, he seemed to be fairly high maintenance on the ice, as week in and week out just watching, it seemed to be a chore to hope he didn’t take a dumb penalty or mail in a back checking effort or avoid a neutral zone hit, and seemed to be needed to always be pushed or patted on the back, or score a goal or two for him to be able to keep motivated and confident...and goes without saying, off the ice, those maintenance issues were magnified even more. Natural talent and physical gifts that seem to be getting him by, but the work ethic to get better isn’t the top of his priority list.

Hanifin, just very consistent in and out and never a concern that he’s not motivated or having to be handled like an egg that is ready to crack out there. His ability and day to day consistency allowing Gio to move back with Brodie and the reinvigoration of both those guys, makes the Hanifin pickup almost like the Flames are ahead by 3 new defenseman over last year.
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Old 11-07-2018, 12:58 AM   #99
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Carolina has definitely slowed down. Taking a look at their boards they don't seem overly enamoured with Hamilton:
.........
Biggest disappointment of the season thus far. The guy hasn't done anything to stand out as an elite (or even above average) defenseman, let alone being worth what we traded for him.

If we needed someone to take a slapshot 3 miles off the net, we should have tried to convince Corvo to return.
.........
Yeah I've been massively disappointed in him. For all the **** Faulk gets around here, I don't see what Hamilton brings that sets him apart as so much better.
.........
Hamilton has only been here for around a quarter of a season. He'll turn into the next whipping boy for sure if he plays out his contract here without a complete 180 to his game.
.........
I don't think it'll matter whether he's on the first or second PP unit. He (like the rest of the players) aren't generating anything on them.

And he's paired with Slavin at even-strength to cover his defensive weakness. Or try to, at least. As evidenced by tonight.
.........
There is also nothing elite about his game at all.

He looks like a run-of-the-mill NHL defenseman out there so far.

It's sad when Brett Pesce shows more offensive flashes of brilliance than Hamilton, at least puckhandling and puckmoving wise.
Wow I am impressed with Canes fans, they understand the game a lot better than I gave them credit for.
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Old 11-07-2018, 01:23 AM   #100
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I thought Slavin would certainly help Dougie out like Chara or Gio had. Not good for the Ham if he can't get rolling.
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