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GioforPM · 01-03-2018, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Top prospect ranking for the Flames

https://theathletic.com/196975/2018/...pects-ranking/

1. Fox
2. Valamaki
3. Kylington
4. Andersson

Dube? Parsons? Or is that just a D ranking? And even then I'd go Valamaki first and probably Andersson second. Fox and Kylington are interesting but each have holes in their game which make their success a little more iffy.

RyZ · 01-03-2018, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Dube? Parsons? Or is that just a D ranking? And even then I'd go Valamaki first and probably Andersson second. Fox and Kylington are interesting but each have holes in their game which make their success a little more iffy.

Dube and Parsons are 5 & 6 on the list.

GioforPM · 01-03-2018, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyZ

Dube and Parsons are 5 & 6 on the list.

Then I disagree.

To me Dube is as much a lock for the NHL as any prospect, it's just a matter of what line he can best fit. Parsons, unless he has taken a step back I don;'t know about, is as good a prospect in goal as the Flames have had. Andersson has actually played real NHL hockey and looked fine. Valimaki IMO, like Dube, was good enough to make the team out of camp but was best served going to junior.

I think both Fox and Kylington are probable NHLers but there's more risks with them.

PeteMoss · 01-03-2018, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Then I disagree.

To me Dube is as much a lock for the NHL as any prospect, it's just a matter of what line he can best fit. Parsons, unless he has taken a step back I don;'t know about, is as good a prospect in goal as the Flames have had. Andersson has actually played real NHL hockey and looked fine. Valimaki IMO, like Dube, was good enough to make the team out of camp but was best served going to junior.

I think both Fox and Kylington are probable NHLers but there's more risks with them.

Watching both Fox and Valimaki in the world juniors, I'd have Fox as the better prospect. Neither are great skaters - Valimaki has quickness issues (turning from backwards to forward skating and turns), Fox doesn't have great top end speed.

Fox is just elite with the puck. He's a guy who makes your PP better and gets it out of your end with great breakouts.

Re: Dube - I agree he's a surefire NHLer, the question with him is if he's a top 6 forward or a really good energy guy.

GioforPM · 01-03-2018, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Watching both Fox and Valimaki in the world juniors, I'd have Fox as the better prospect. Neither are great skaters - Valimaki has quickness issues (turning from backwards to forward skating and turns), Fox doesn't have great top end speed.

Fox is just elite with the puck. He's a guy who makes your PP better and gets it out of your end with great breakouts.

Re: Dube - I agree he's a surefire NHLer, the question with him is if he's a top 6 forward or a really good energy guy.

I guess my bias towards Valimaki is because he was good in preseason, and so calm for a rookie. Fox has some decision making issues but great upside IMO. I'm not crazy about his size, of course, but if he can be Ellis, Krug, Liles, Spurgeon or Klingberg (who is tall enough but so skinny) I'm a happy guy.

ComixZone · 01-03-2018, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Dube? Parsons? Or is that just a D ranking? And even then I'd go Valamaki first and probably Andersson second. Fox and Kylington are interesting but each have holes in their game which make their success a little more iffy.

"Holes" are just part of modern NHL d-men. It's all about puck movement and transition, both of which Kylington and Fox have in spades.

It was a good article, and really does paint a picture of just how over critical Flames fans have been of Kylington during his development.

GioforPM · 01-03-2018, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComixZone

"Holes" are just part of modern NHL d-men. It's all about puck movement and transition, both of which Kylington and Fox have in spades.

It was a good article, and really does paint a picture of just how over critical Flames fans have been of Kylington during his development.

I like both of them. I just think Valimaki and Andersson are more complete and have the stronger overall likelihood of being NHLers. Fox may have the highest ceiling though.

Enoch Root · 01-03-2018, 10:14 PM

I think Valimaki is a more complete player than Fox. He also has the size.

I think Dube has passed them both.

I think Parsons is the best prospect overall, but goalies are witches, so I understand discounting him a bit for that.

I can't believe there has been no mention of Eat Bread yet. I have to admit that I didn't have high hopes for him, but he has elevated his game this year very nicely.

For me, right now:

Parsons
Dube
Andersson
Mangiapane
Gillies
Kylington
Valimaki
Fox
Klimchuk
Wotherspoon

(Kulak, Jankowski, Rittich and Hathaway assumed to be graduated)

Enoch Root · 01-03-2018, 10:30 PM

It's crazy to think that the 10th, 11th, 13th and 17th ranked prospects from this summer's vote, are all playing on the big club right now.

(Mangiapane, Kulak, Rittich and Hathaway)

Samonadreau · 01-03-2018, 11:17 PM

I think I had Kulak and Rittich 5 and 6. Went with high floor as opposed to low floor high ceiling wild card

Tinordi · 01-03-2018, 11:24 PM

Kulak's always been underrated by fans on this board. I was lambasted for suggesting that losing him in the expansion draft would hurt. Thankfully we didn't because he's been an excellent cheap #6 defenseman, and he was last year as well when the coaching staff decided to give him reps.

Table 5 · 01-04-2018, 08:04 AM

It's a real shame that Poirier and Klimchuk haven't really panned out. I remember thinking we needed 2 out of 3 of those 2013 draft picks to excel for this rebuild to really work. While I don't think that draft necessarily lived up to the hype in terms of depth, Klimchuk is the only 1st round pick who hasn't played an NHL game yet, and Poirier has played the 3rd least (we also have the guy who played the 4th least). Klimchuk seems to have picked it up a bit this year, but I don't see him ever being a high impact player.

We seem to have made some great picks on D, but we sure could use some prospects with offensive punch right now.

Jiri Hrdina · 01-04-2018, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Kulak's always been underrated by fans on this board. I was lambasted for suggesting that losing him in the expansion draft would hurt. Thankfully we didn't because he's been an excellent cheap #6 defenseman, and he was last year as well when the coaching staff decided to give him reps.

Hurt is a relative term. Relative to what other teams could have or did lose, Kulak would not have been a huge loss.
That being said, I admit that he's been more solid than I anticipated.

Tinordi · 01-04-2018, 10:11 AM

In a fascinating turn of events, mudcrutch of all people, is becoming one my favourite Flames columnists/analysts. His latest on the Flames and GG's (over)use of the 4th line is very good.

https://theathletic.com/199345/2018/...glen-gulutzan/

Basic point, yes GG plays his 4th line more than other coaches when the game is tight but no it's very difficult to say that is having a negative impact on results.

Jiri Hrdina · 01-04-2018, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 5

It's a real shame that Poirier and Klimchuk haven't really panned out. I remember thinking we needed 2 out of 3 of those 2013 draft picks to excel for this rebuild to really work. While I don't think that draft necessarily lived up to the hype in terms of depth, Klimchuk is the only 1st round pick who hasn't played an NHL game yet, and Poirier has played the 3rd least (we also have the guy who played the 4th least). Klimchuk seems to have picked it up a bit this year, but I don't see him ever being a high impact player.

We seem to have made some great picks on D, but we sure could use some prospects with offensive punch right now.

The Iginla and Bouwmeester deals have to be considered massive whiffs. I almost give Feaster a pass on the Iggy deal because he was a pending UFA who was enforcing his no trade list down to basically one team. So there wasn't opportunity to create a bidding war
But Bouwmeester simply didn't need to be dealt. He had a year remaining so the Flames could have easily hung on to him and tried to find a better deal during the off-season.
I think they wanted to send a message that the rebuild was on - but those deals simply weren't good. While there are some nice players after Poirier and Klimchuk in the draft, if you are acquiring late 1sts, basically it's about a 30-35% chance (I think) that they turn into something. And highly unlikely they turn into impact players.

Tinordi · 01-04-2018, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Hurt is a relative term. Relative to what other teams could have or did lose, Kulak would not have been a huge loss.
That being said, I admit that he's been more solid than I anticipated.

It would have hurt losing Kulak more than any other player that was expansion draft eligible on the Flames, which was my point. People pointed and laughed. And then it turned out to be true. This team is categorically worse this year without Kulak and Bart getting a regular rep.

Jiri Hrdina · 01-04-2018, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinordi

It would have hurt losing Kulak more than any other player that was expansion draft eligible on the Flames, which was my point. People pointed and laughed. And then it turned out to be true. This team is categorically worse this year without Kulak and Bart getting a regular rep.

Hmm that's not how I remember it. My recollection was more that folks didn't believe that losing Kulak would make a material difference.
But as always there are literally thousands of opinions on this board - I'm always sorta confused when people feel they were the lone voice on a topic.

Tinordi · 01-04-2018, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Hmm that's not how I remember it. My recollection was more that folks didn't believe that losing Kulak would make a material difference.
But as always there are literally thousands of opinions on this board - I'm always sorta confused when people feel they were the lone voice on a topic.

I'm not saying that there was a unified CP voice on the issue so stop putting words in my mouth. What I'm saying is that losing Kulak would have made a material difference. He's a bonafide, legit NHL asset on the cheap and by the way things are rolling in VGK, who knows what type of career trajectory he'd be on in the desert.

Tinordi · 01-05-2018, 10:37 AM

Good piece up Kent Wilson like a random thoughts of December. He thinks the team will trade Hamilton over Brodie. Discusses how thin RW is now and in the future which is why a defenceman is most likely on the move. And other general impressions of the mediocre December one of his better articles that's easy to read.

https://theathletic.com/202046/2018/...-all-together/

Tinordi · 01-10-2018, 09:57 AM

Interview between Duha and Treliving on the first half of the season. Talks about trade deadline, youth movement, Mike Smith, inconsistency and Jagr.

Quote:

Q: Let’s start with the basics. Can you assess the first half? What worked? What didn’t?

A: It’s been a sputtery first half. We’ve been criticized, and rightly so, for our consistent inconsistency. Now, there are some things we’ve done really well...

https://theathletic.com/208152/2018/...-jagrs-future/