What’s Causing the Most Problem?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Flame On

As much as I've railed against coaching, I feel equally as strong that the core is highly problematic. A bunch of David Moss and Daymond Langkow types that are sometimes effective, but have no drive, grit, second gear, which is what serves in the playoffs and when times are tough.
The awww shucks, we'll get 'em next time approach is driving a wedge with those that do have that drive like Tkachuk with the "we can't have a riot after every game".
I would love a riot after every game way more than the passive thing they have going on at the moment.
I'm not saying you drive out every Sean Monahan, Gio and others we have, but don't let them be the focus.

See, and I think Tkachuk has a reputation that makes it sound like he shows up a lot more than he really does

Great interviews. Great hat flip. Part time player

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

See, and I think Tkachuk has a reputation that makes it sound like he shows up a lot more than he really does

Great interviews. Great hat flip. Part time player

Yeah I think there's a lot of smoke and mirrors with Matthew Tkachuk. He's a very talented player that's a poor skater and average average motor. He's painted as some sort of warrior that rises to the occasion but he's no different than Monahan or Gaudreau when it comes to on ice effort on a regular basis. The next time he has a dominant performance in a game leading up to the playoffs or in the playoffs will be the first time. As with the Nylanders the apple doesn't fall far from the tree and you look at his dad who was a a sulky guy that put up great regular season points and could never rise to the occasion in the playoffs.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Flame On

As much as I've railed against coaching, I feel equally as strong that the core is highly problematic. A bunch of David Moss and Daymond Langkow types that are sometimes effective, but have no drive, grit, second gear, which is what serves in the playoffs and when times are tough.
The awww shucks, we'll get 'em next time approach is driving a wedge with those that do have that drive like Tkachuk with the "we can't have a riot after every game".
I would love a riot after every game way more than the passive thing they have going on at the moment.
I'm not saying you drive out every Sean Monahan, Gio and others we have, but don't let them be the focus.

Completely off topic but as a big Langkow fan I have to say that he was perfectly fine in the playoffs. Career 0.62 PPG guy he had a 0.59 PPG production in the playoffs and for the Flames he was a 0.69 PPG in the playoffs and 0.79 PPG in the regular season during those 4 playoff years.

I would throw Tkachuk into the group of guys that do not have natural drive as well. The Flames when Darryl Sutter had a bunch of guys like that as well but a coach can install drive, like Sutter did for one year.

[madmike]

The whole organization is a mess right now.

The sad part is I can't identify a single player on this roster I'd want to build around. Maybe Lindholm. But he's definitely not a centrepiece.

The core of this team needs to go. It's just not good enough. Gaudreau and Monahan should both be shipped out if the return is decent.

I'd even be ok moving on from Tkachuk. He just isn't a consistent force night in and night out. And he doesn't seem to be elevating his game. He isn't worth his current contract, let alone the $9 million QO he'll be getting in a couple of years.

I'd like to be optimistic, but realistically I think this franchise is in for a stretch of ugly years.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by madmike

The whole organization is a mess right now.

The sad part is I can't identify a single player on this roster I'd want to build around. Maybe Lindholm. But he's definitely not a centrepiece.

The core of this team needs to go. It's just not good enough. Gaudreau and Monahan should both be shipped out if the return is decent.

I'd even be ok moving on from Tkachuk. He just isn't a consistent force night in and night out. And he doesn't seem to be elevating his game. He isn't worth his current contract, let alone the $9 million QO he'll be getting in a couple of years.

I'd like to be optimistic, but realistically I think this franchise is in for a stretch of ugly years.

I feel bad for Markstrom having just signed away what is probably the rest of his career on a team that isn't going to be very competitive for a long time.

[Macho0978]

For me it's the core. Lindholm is probably the only player on the team that is good at all aspects of the game. But he still isn't a star that elevates anyone he plays with. Monahan, Tkachuk and Johnny all have glaring weaknesses that hold back how good they can be without players that compliment them. They all at one point were overrated to what they actually are.

Monahan is too slow and isn't not a force physically so he relies on Johnny to get him the puck as he can't create for himself

Johnny is the softest player in the league. Most talented player on the team but he size hurts this team quite often. Loose pucks in his corner end up with the other team and quite often he could be first to it but won't go after it because he is limited physically.

Tkachuk is slowly falling into Monahan range. Good player and still better than Monahan but he still needs someone to get the puck into the zone for him. His lack of speed hurts his ability to impact the game every night.

I would say this is the biggest reason why this team isn't good enough. But I do believe you can be an elite team without an elite player. But then you need very good depth. Treliving did a great job setting up the cap a few years ago that should have put us in a position to win now, but he has failed making this team deep enough. So a lot of blame is on him too. I also think that building a team with elite players is easier on a GM than trying to build a elite team based on depth. Treliving lack of patience blocked this team for adding higher end potential players.

[Johnny Makarov]

I think the Flames need more palm oil as they are super butter soft.

Like I can't believe Brian Burke would let Treliving build such a weak ass team.

[Classic_Sniper]

Short Term: Neutral Zone is killing the Flames. Can’t breakout worth a damn, turning pucks over causing goals allowed instead of scoring chances. They can’t get it in deep with any sustained pressure so their forecheck is completely ineffective and then they overcommit a lot of times anyway which leads to self inflicted wounds as their vulnerability creates easy counter attacks. All that leads to a lot of goals against, not a lot of goals scored and surprise, surprise, blowouts.

Long Term: No Identity and Poor Vision. All this team ever does is build on franchise wingers, but that’s not how you win Stanley Cups. You win Stanley Cups with elite #1 centers or an elite 1-2 punch up the middle. Couple this with no identity and you have a team that doesn’t dictate anything, are constantly chasing, are easy to match up against in the playoffs and even at our peak, always just middling and mediocre. If I’m a fan of any other playoff team, I would rub my hands together for the chance to play the Flames in round 1 because statistically speaking, you’ll probably win the series 80%-90% of the time.

[Geeoff]

At the end of the day, #5 is responsible for 1,2,3,6 and 7

[SebC]

1. Core

Same core as 2018-2019. Not the problem.

2. Core’s Supporting Cast

Guys who were decent elsewhere are doing absolutely nothing in Calgary e.g. Simon/Leivo. Not the problem.

3. Coaching

Sure looks to be problematic. It appears they gave up on a style that was working, anticipating that it wouldn't work in the playoffs and replaced it with something that doesn't work in the playoffs or the regular season.

4. Ownership

Only the problem to the extent that they affect the coaching hires.

5. GM - Brad Treliving

Mixed bag. But the players are less than the sum of their parts, as explained for 1. and 2. Chooses the coach, so there's an issue there.

6. Scouting/Prospect Development

Hard to say if our young players are underdeveloped when the whole team is underperforming.

7. Leadership

I mean obviously they're not being led appropriately. I tend to believe that's more on the coaching side. Again, did we have different leadership when we won the division, other than the coach?

==================

Bottom line in Calgary is that players who have played better are now playing worse, whether they are veterans in the organization or in their first season here. They are being systematically handicapped by the only variable that's changed.

[Boreal]

None of the above.

It’s execution and confidence. It’s a feedback loop when it’s working and when it isn’t.

Their mindset is what enables them to persevere and avoid wilting under adversity.

Coaching might be also be an issue because the playing too secure/slow/safe, but even then, the players are culpable in the execution of any system and the coaches are managing a lot more than simply systems.

This isn’t a video game.

They’re not a slow team, but they’re playing slow.

Versteeg laid it out quiet clearly yesterday,

https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/hockey-...kris-versteeg/

He starts at 26:30.

Regardless of what the problem is, options beyond finding an answer in their room are virtually zero.

On a positive note, what matters most is playing well at the right time.

Who cares mid season.

It’s as valuable as having a #1 powerplay all year that loses its mojo.

Who cares right now, they’re still in it, if they knock of 5-10 in a row at any point they might even be looking at home ice because of how terrible everyone but Toronto is.

Yeah they’re unwatchable, they suck and yet they’re still picking up points.

I would sooner have them clipping on all cylinders at the end of the year, squeak in and stomp the Leafs than be dominant mid season.

[Enoch Root]

Versteeg's comments were largely about coaching and style of play.

"They play slow"

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Versteeg's comments were largely about coaching and style of play.

"They play slow"

Great. But why? Why are they playing slow?

That’s a better question.

Is it to integrate young or new players?
Is it a style they think is suited to the personnel?

Whatever the reasoning is, it isn’t working, and when they can, they can’t sustain it in any identifiable way.

The coaching staff isn’t stupid. They see the results. Everyone is essentially blaming everything & saying to anyone associated with the team, “get confidence stupid.”

Again.

The only option is figuring it out internally and addressing failures when the season is over.

They need a reset some way, some how. I don’t know what will galvanize them, but something had better.

[Flamesforever99]

Everything from the core to the coach to the gm all the way to the cheap owners

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Boreal

Great. But why? Why are they playing slow?

That’s a better question.

Is it to integrate young or new players?
Is it a style they think is suited to the personnel?

Whatever the reasoning is, it isn’t working, and when they can, they can’t sustain it in any identifiable way.

The coaching staff isn’t stupid. They see the results. Everyone is essentially blaming everything & saying to anyone associated with the team, “get confidence stupid.”

Again.

The only option is figuring it out internally and addressing failures when the season is over.

They need a reset some way, some how. I don’t know what will galvanize them, but something had better.

Why are they playing slow? This is a question that has stumped the Flames all the way back to when Bill Peters was still coaching this team. An entire article was written about it during their early struggles of 2019.

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/play-faster/c-310451184

Bill Peters' Answer: "Play Faster."

Some ground breaking stuff from the mind of their former 50 win coach. Just play faster. If he didn't even have the answer, then who does?

[CalgaryFan1988]

What's the Flames' record since Tkachuk became the highest paid Flame?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

I think the Flames need more palm oil as they are super butter soft.

Like I can't believe Brian Burke would let Treliving build such a weak ass team.

The Treliving draftees are Tkachuk (not soft), Dube (not soft), Andersson (not soft), Bennett (not soft), Valimaki (not soft), Mangiapane (not soft). His big trades are Hamilton (meh), Hanifin (not really soft IMO), Lindholm (not soft). His UFAs are Brouwer (not soft), Neal (he was supposed to be a dick but not soft) and Frolik (not soft).

The softies on the team are your boy Johnny, maybe Monahan (but I think he’s tougher than others do), and you probably say Gio, which is ridiculous. None of those are Treliving’s.

Which ones were Burke supposed to complain to Treliving about?

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

See, and I think Tkachuk has a reputation that makes it sound like he shows up a lot more than he really does

Great interviews. Great hat flip. Part time player

Entirely willing to believe you're quite right there. However I'm not sure if that's been drummed out of him, or whether it wasn't actually there in the first place. For me the jury is still out there.