[GDT] Game 3: Flames vs Canucks SN1/Fan960 7pm MT

[transplant99]

actually...nm.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by shadowlord

I still don't understand how Bob Hartley got fined for putting out his 4th line to start that game.

I like Torts, generally, but that has to be one of his all time dumbest moves.

Flames submit their starting line up first. Torts sees it and has two options. Think to himself "sweet, Hartley is an idiot, I'm gonna start my first line and give us an instant match up advantage, giving us a great chance to go up 1-0 early and establish some momentum."

His other option, the one he followed, was to get into a pissing match he knew he couldn't win. We were tougher than they were. But Torts strikes me as the kind of guy who can't walk away from a fight when you call him chicken or yellow belly.

And that one idiotic decision basically cost his team that season and a playoff series. From that point forward, they didn't have a chance against us. We were in his head and in their player's heads.

Truly a masterstroke from Bob.

As for the fine, I get they fined him based on the outcome, but the set-up was all on Torts. It is unusual to start your 4th line but not unheard of. Some coaches like to reward opening line ups based on which line is hot or based on hard work. Especially in a road game, it wasn't that far fetched for a coach to want a bang and crash energy line out there to start the game.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by dash_pinched

Who can forget?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1351206688280477701

3 of the top 8 Single game TOI leaders in the history of the NHL are from that game. At the time, it was 3 of the top 6.

Dennis Wideman still #1 all time - 38:05 TOI.

It makes sense though, 65 min of time divided into 4 defenseman per team, but having two on ice all the time:

130/4 = 32.5 min that was going to be average for the 8 remaining defensemen.

Then Shane O’Brien had a 10 min misconduct in the remaking time, and Giordano took 4 minor penalties. That leaves a lot of time for Wideman and Brodie to play.

[Flames1217]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Struggled?

61% CF
65% Shot split
68% xGF

Two penalties ... both silly, one sillier than the other but neither he nor that line struggled at all.

Wow those fancy stats are great. I maybe out too much into the bad penalty.

Wasn't expecting that.

[Samonadreau]

Ya Bennett outside of those penalties had a solid game.... those penalties though.... frick Sam

[Toonage]

He is what he is at this point. Lacks finish, stifles or outright kills momentum. Always leaves you wanting more.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

If we win, we're over .500 for the first time this season.

I swear you go out of your way to point this out every chance you get lol. We get it, you think it's an OT loss is a loss.

Mathematically, it's a tie, so the whole "it's not over .500" argument is a semantics argument, not a mathematical one, as I don't see how you can argue your point from a mathematical standpoint.

[Vinny01]

I expect a much better Canucks team tonight so hoping the Flames adjust and can get the win. Hoping the ex-Canucks keep up the play from Saturday

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I like Torts, generally, but that has to be one of his all time dumbest moves.

Flames submit their starting line up first. Torts sees it and has two options. Think to himself "sweet, Hartley is an idiot, I'm gonna start my first line and give us an instant match up advantage, giving us a great chance to go up 1-0 early and establish some momentum."

His other option, the one he followed, was to get into a pissing match he knew he couldn't win. We were tougher than they were. But Torts strikes me as the kind of guy who can't walk away from a fight when you call him chicken or yellow belly.

And that one idiotic decision basically cost his team that season and a playoff series. From that point forward, they didn't have a chance against us. We were in his head and in their player's heads.

Truly a masterstroke from Bob.

As for the fine, I get they fined him based on the outcome, but the set-up was all on Torts. It is unusual to start your 4th line but not unheard of. Some coaches like to reward opening line ups based on which line is hot or based on hard work. Especially in a road game, it wasn't that far fetched for a coach to want a bang and crash energy line out there to start the game.

And, in a few of the preceding games, the Canucks had been gooning it up against other teams...

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Struggled?

61% CF
65% Shot split
68% xGF

Two penalties ... both silly, one sillier than the other but neither he nor that line struggled at all.

And how much of that is attributed to his linemates rather than Bennett? Another reason I dislike "counting stats." Too many of them are based on the play of the five man unit rather than individual players. Bennett was his usual meh self, including taking two boneheaded penalties. He deserves his chance, but at some point he's got to get on the scoresheet for something other than playing stupid or lazy.

[Vinny01]

I suck at Math

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

We have a win and a loss. The loss feels bad. the win feels good. i like to win more games than we lose.

'.500' has nothing to do with the standings or points - it's about winning games in sports talk. loser points are there but they're still not as fun as wins.

So the 0.500 has to do with fun and feeling? This is akin to giving ricardo's grit index credence.

In sports talk, 0.500 is accumulating 50% of the points you could have achieved. It's not just wins and losses, since all losses aren't created equal. Two points are awarded at the end of regulation and then a bonus point is awarded to one of the teams. If all losses were the same there would only be two columns. Since there are two different types of losses (one has points and one doesn't), a binary system doesn't work. Your argument would work for MLB or the NBA, because they don't award points at the end of regulation, unless one team is leading. Your argument won't work in the NFL. As they have ties, their records are based on points out of possible points, just like the NHL. Philadelphia Eagles had a record of 4-11-1. Their Pct, as listed on the official NFL.com website, is 0.333, not 0.250.

The Flames currently have three points out of four and therefore have a 0.750 record. You can feel happy, sad, or other about that, but it's still 0.750. Math doesn't have feelings. 28-0-28 would win the President's Cup. 29-27-0 wouldn't make the playoffs.

tl;dr The NHL disagrees with you. From their site:

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

So far they have 3 of 6 points. Can you do that math for me because I crunched those numbers and am getting .500 winning %

Is there something I am missing here?

3 out of a possible 4 points so far. They've only played 2 games

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Toonage

He is what he is at this point. Lacks finish, stifles or outright kills momentum. Always leaves you wanting more.

Nobody with those splits is stifling or killing momentum.

Dumb penalties ... clearly.

Can't finish ... historically.

But no he isn't stifling anything, he and for whatever reason reasonable players he plays with just don't finish them when he's on the ice.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by New Era

And how much of that is attributed to his linemates rather than Bennett? Another reason I dislike "counting stats." Too many of them are based on the play of the five man unit rather than individual players. Bennett was his usual meh self, including taking two boneheaded penalties. He deserves his chance, but at some point he's got to get on the scoresheet for something other than playing stupid or lazy.

The best part about these underlying stats is we pick and choose when we want to deem them as reliable information or not.

Let’s pay a fortune for PLD cause his underlying numbers indicate he is a #1 play driving center and will be way better than Monahan.

Oh Bennett has good underlying numbers? Must be because of his linemates.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

And how much of that is attributed to his linemates rather than Bennett? Another reason I dislike "counting stats." Too many of them are based on the play of the five man unit rather than individual players. Bennett was his usual meh self, including taking two boneheaded penalties. He deserves his chance, but at some point he's got to get on the scoresheet for something other than playing stupid or lazy.

Well the same two players struggled in Winnipeg until Bennett joined their line, so really in a short sample size the opposite is true.

Ryan playing out of position didn't help them. Bennett did.

Why try and wedge one player out of a trio that has played well together by giving the other two all the credit? That's the kind of gymnastics employed when you literally want a player to fail.

But yeah hopefully he finishes, but I don't agree that he has to. He's on Backlund's line getting some tough matchups, if they have 65% of the splits they are going a long way to helping the team win.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by New Era

And how much of that is attributed to his linemates rather than Bennett? Another reason I dislike "counting stats." Too many of them are based on the play of the five man unit rather than individual players. Bennett was his usual meh self, including taking two boneheaded penalties. He deserves his chance, but at some point he's got to get on the scoresheet for something other than playing stupid or lazy.

Yeah the penalties were dumb no doubt - but his play was strong.

I don't think his penalties were due to laziness, rather just a lack if discipline - hopefully something he and the team can get under control, because he's not the only offender (but taking two in one game is definitely unacceptable).

"but at some point he's got to get on the scoresheet for something other than playing stupid or lazy"

Sam Bennett has 8 points in his last 12 games. When he scores, you discredit it. When he doesn't score, you say he needs to score.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

3 out of a possible 4 points so far. They've only played 2 games

Thank you. You can see why I asked for help with the math as I am clearly not very good at it

[Patek23]

Guys, calm down LOL win percentage wise we are .500

Points percentage wise we are .750

Everyone wins!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

Guys, calm down LOL win percentage wise we are .500.

Points percentage wise we are .750.

Everyone wins!

I just don't see win% as .500 when the game played after 60 minutes is 3 on 3 and then a shoot out. It's not really like the game itself.

The Flames have won a game, and earned a third point in a tie.