[Rumour] Weegar doesn’t want to negotiate during season: Friedman

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

You cannot afford a repeat of the mistake the Flames made last season with pending UFAs who walk (unless you are prepared for that price, which is zero return but in exchange the availability of cap space).

If Mackenzie doesn't want to negotiate during season but wants to stay in Calgary that's fine, sounds like he has about 10 days to make up his mind then. If not, you trade at the deadline. Regardless of playoff position. Time to get ruthless with assets.

I also think you make it abundantly clear, if you're the Flames, that this is your position. "We either negotiate during season, or you agree now, or if no to both previous requests, you risk being traded at deadline".

Pushing for a deep playoff run >>>> asset management.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by joejoe3

Justify it's own thread since Huberdeau signed with just Weegar left

that other thread was way too long and way too much drama between posters

Surely this one will be immune of drama.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

You cannot afford a repeat of the mistake the Flames made last season with pending UFAs who walk (unless you are prepared for that price, which is zero return but in exchange the availability of cap space).

If Mackenzie doesn't want to negotiate during season but wants to stay in Calgary that's fine, sounds like he has about 10 days to make up his mind then. If not, you trade at the deadline. Regardless of playoff position. Time to get ruthless with assets.

I also think you make it abundantly clear, if you're the Flames, that this is your position. "We either negotiate during season, or you agree now, or if no to both previous requests, you risk being traded at deadline".

I feel like a broken record. The purpose of managing a hockey team is not the same as a hedge fund manager. The purpose is to win. Can you imagine, the Flames are dominating the league, poised to make a deep run. Tre then trades our #1 or 2 Dman because ‘asset management’. And it potentially costs us the cup or a deep playoff run.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I feel like a broken record. The purpose of managing a hockey team is not the same as a hedge fund manager. The purpose is to win. Can you imagine, the Flames are dominating the league, poised to make a deep run. Tre then trades our #1 or 2 Dman because ‘asset management’. And it potentially costs us the cup or a deep playoff run.

Also, unless they are miles apart (which it doesn't seem like) or Weegar says or does things that make it clear he doesn't want to be here (and the fact they've been negotiating hard makes that seem unlikely) what are the odds they can't finish off a deal later?

It is clear in hindsight that Gaudreau and Tkachuk both wanted to go south. It's certainly not clear with Weegar. who is, after all, Canadian, and from a city with worse weather and that's more boring than Calgary.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I feel like a broken record. The purpose of managing a hockey team is not the same as a hedge fund manager. The purpose is to win. Can you imagine, the Flames are dominating the league, poised to make a deep run. Tre then trades our #1 or 2 Dman because ‘asset management’. And it potentially costs us the cup or a deep playoff run.

Yes that's why you trade him and Gaudreau before the season starts.

Even if you're the best team in the league, which we weren't. Luck plays a huge role in Stanley cups. Best course of action is to maximize your chances over several years.

[Kasi]

The best teams routinely let players walk. Cap space is a benefit regardless. You don’t see Tampa or Colorado trading top players because of impending FA. I suppose the Avs should have traded Kadri last season to maximize their return. Then again maybe they don’t win the cup without him.

[Sofa GM]

This is a pretty standard negotiating tactic.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Colorado just let Kadri and Burakovsky walk, I am sure Sakic is feeling the heat by not trading them at the start of last season to maximize their chances of winning for several years. Those 1st round picks and prospects would have been huge for them this year.

[Cain]

I'm on the trade at deadline team if there is no extension in place...Unless you are currently sitting as a top 2-3 team in the entire league, I'd favor the asset management approach. If you are a Colorado or Tampa, for sure, keep them and see what happens.



It is obviously something easy with hindsight and hard to decide in the moment, but I think you'd be better set up long term if you consistently signed guys early, and dealt those that were reluctant. I'd make this very clear to the players too, no surprises come the deadline.



I do understand the opposing viewpoint, but I think the Cup is such a hard to win trophy, with a lot of luck involved that you need to maximize chances over a long period of time instead of hope that this one special run is the one to do it at the expense of longer term assets.

[Jiri Hrdina]

The reality is that in modern sports players walk. The NBA paints the picture of what the future looks like. Pro athletes are going to push for more movement, earlier in their careers. They are going to apply whatever leverage they can. They are going to want to be paid earlier. The idea of a 2nd contract has all but vanished.

Therefore teams will be looking to build their asset base, draft capital and cap room to time it all so they can take a shot for a period of time.

If the Flames are a disappointment this year, and don't look like a contender then sure trade him. But this team is a win now mode, so assuming they think they have a chance, they ain't going to trade him even if he's a pending UFA.

But there is far more nuance to this then concluding that losing a UFA is good or bad. That's a lot of room in middle.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by DJones

Was always a mistake if you think the alternative was not letting him play to UFA.

Like we have to trade Weegar asap if he doesn't sign. By the TDL we'll be too committed.

The team is trying to win this year. They aren't going to trade one of their best dmen. When the deal was made, I think everyone felt that if they get one of Huberdeau or Weegar signed it was a good deal, even if one of them walked.
They've done that. They aren't going to trade one of their best dmen when they are clearly going for it.

And I think he signs anyways.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DJones

Yes that's why you trade him and Gaudreau before the season starts.

Even if you're the best team in the league, which we weren't. Luck plays a huge role in Stanley cups. Best course of action is to maximize your chances over several years.

that's how you become mediocre over several years...better to take 2 or 3 real swings IMO

with hindsight 31 teams should have sold at the deadline last season

[Sofa GM]

Guessing this will get done before regular season starts.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by DJones

Yes that's why you trade him and Gaudreau before the season starts.

Even if you're the best team in the league, which we weren't. Luck plays a huge role in Stanley cups. Best course of action is to maximize your chances over several years.

Gaudreau's value before the season started last year was likely at an all time low.

Make no mistake, the GM and ownership would have discussed the possibility of trading him at that time and they would have looked at the likely return.

If Johnny had been traded, the liklihood is that Calgary would have been closer to a bubble team than a contender.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Whether Calgary signs Weegar to an extension is going to be a good measure of Treliving again, and whether he learns from situations. He nearly burned the team to the ground by misplaying the Gaudreau contract, which he would have been happy to sign before last season started for a reasonable value (less than what was on the table after the season). After Gaudreau bounced he had Tkachuk then decide he wanted out as well. What worked for the Flames advantage there was he had a Tkachuk to trade, and another dopey GM who believed he was getting a generational talent in return and gave up more than anyone else would have. The Flames got exceptionally lucky as they recouped some really good assets because they had something tangible to trade. They then got as lucky in being able to sign Kadri, but having to pay to move Monahan to do so. That was then, this is now.

Treliving is staring down the barrel of the exact same gun. Only this time the outcomes look different. He can sign Weegar to what will likely be a very reasonable long-term extension if rumors are accurate. Or he can somehow let this slide this slide int the season and watch the number grow if the Flames achieve the levels expected. If the contract slides and the Flames have another successful season with Weegar as a main part of that equation the potential to lose him increases. At best the contract numbers increase, likely making him too rich for the Flames' blood. Weegar would position himself to walk, which the Flames don't want and can't afford to have happen. Why would that be? Look at the blueline and the contract situations to figure it out.

The Flames don't have much on the blueline in the development pipeline. It is not like they have multiple players knocking at the door to backfill players as they leave. They also don't have many more trade chips left to play with, so a replay of this past summer is highly unlikely. The best play here is to get the contract done now and keep the team focused on winning rather than the concerns about a repeat of this summer. If Weegar is that Giordano level defenseman, then get him under contract and make the Tkachuk trade a landslide victory once and for all.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Not sure how Treliving almost burned the team to the ground. He hired Sutter and believed the team had another gear with a better coach, and he was right. It's really not his fault that a player decided to take the team for a ride but saying he wanted to sign long term. 10.5 million for 8 years to me seems like he did everything possible, and got screwed by the player in the end.

Signing a player requires the player actually wanting to sign, you can't force someone to sign if they don't want too. I believe Weegar when he says he wants to sign, but we don't know if that's just him saying that to the media or his actual intention.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Remains to be seen if having Johnny walk was a mistake.

This is nonsensical if you're actually trying to argue that this was anything other than an unmitigated disaster that very nearly put this team squarely into the lottery conversation when compounded with the Tkachuk issue that was part and parcel.

It's not how you can effectively do business, and it's certainly not something that should ever be repeated whether wittingly or unwittingly. Anytime you lose an elite player, let alone one that is flirting with the Art Ross and Hart votes for nothing, it is a very big boo boo in terms of asset management.

The fact the Flame recouped such high end assets out of this mess is something that cannot be allowed to slide (which was fantastic work). Signing Weegar gives the Flames another tremendous asset that they simply cannot afford to lose if they plan to capitalize on this window this season and beyond.

[dino7c]

If the Flames sign Gaudreau last summer who knows what kinda season he has...its not a coincidence so many guys have career years in contract years

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Not sure how Treliving almost burned the team to the ground. He hired Sutter and believed the team had another gear with a better coach, and he was right. It's really not his fault that a player decided to take the team for a ride but saying he wanted to sign long term. 10.5 million for 8 years to me seems like he did everything possible, and got screwed by the player in the end.

Signing a player requires the player actually wanting to sign, you can't force someone to sign if they don't want too. I believe Weegar when he says he wants to sign, but we don't know if that's just him saying that to the media or his actual intention.

Treliving has been facked over by geography so many times and still has a 100 point team...boggles the mind some still doubt him

If Weegar will take a fair deal it will get done, if 6.5+x8 isn't good enough for him its pretty hard to blame the GM. You cant just give a guy everything he wants.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Colorado just let Kadri and Burakovsky walk, I am sure Sakic is feeling the heat by not trading them at the start of last season to maximize their chances of winning for several years. Those 1st round picks and prospects would have been huge for them this year.

He's not though - he just locked in Mackinnon and could only do so by doing what he did with those players. He also won the cup by doing what he did so you kind of get a free pass for that in its own right.