Golf!!!2!

[chedder]

I agree with mrkajc above. Re-think that 60 yard shot to be if you hit and stay on the green in regulation you should be happy. I catch myself thinking what a crappy shot I made if I'm 30 or 40 feet from the pin. Then I remind myself I'm on in regulation and should be ecstatic that I have a good chance for a 2 putt par and bogie at absolute worst.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

If anyone has a chance to play Banff before they close for the season, I'd jump on it.

That place is as pure tee to green as I've ever seen it.

best shape it has ever been in, no question

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Dion

https://twitter.com/user/status/1574154002996011013

It's a little weird how much they hype Charlie as being a phenom. Shooting a 68 at 13 sounds good to an average golf fan, but I don't think most realize how good and competitive junior golfers are these days. He's good for sure, but he's not even a top 20 in his age in Florida. Junior golf scoreboard tracks 36 hole+ tournaments, and he's 218 nationally for 2027 grads, and my son has a good friend here who's also a 2027 and he's ranked 207 and nobody is interviewing him .

[Slava]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

It's a little weird how much they hype Charlie as being a phenom. Shooting a 68 at 13 sounds good to an average golf fan, but I don't think most realize how good and competitive junior golfers are these days. He's good for sure, but he's not even a top 20 in his age in Florida. Junior golf scoreboard tracks 36 hole+ tournaments, and he's 218 nationally for 2027 grads, and my son has a good friend here who's also a 2027 and he's ranked 207 and nobody is interviewing him .

Yeah, but is his dad one of the very best golfers in history?

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Slava

Yeah, but is his dad one of the very best golfers in history?

His Dad is a 9 handicapper, and I might have a shot at beating him on a good day lol.

Obviously that's the reason he gets the attention, and I'm by no means saying other 13 year olds should be getting media attention. I feel bad for Charlie with the way they are hyping him to a level that is going to be very tough to live up to. I see posts elsewhere about him breaking his dad's records, etc.

If he was a no-name 13 yo, he'd be on track for about 50/50 getting a d1 scholarship. Obviously he's got the resources and name to have better odds of getting there, but the media really needs to leave him alone a bit and at least put into context that he was tied for 4th in that tournament which was played at 5700 yards, and didn't even get a qualifying spot to the national tournament.

[Northendzone]

There is a Charlie woods parody Twitter account that produces some real gold.

Will be interesting to see if he stays with golf and where if any place he can go with it. He already has a lot of baggage

[jayswin]

Count me in as another that believes in getting as close to the green as you can on each shot. In fact that was the biggest improvement to my game this season.

No more "try to get to 110 cause I feel the most comfortable hitting that distance". Instead I practiced 30-90 yard irons and chipping off the green and just try to bomb drives and irons to get as close as I can to the green.

I agree with both posters that "my preferred distance" is often psychological for average to below average golfers. Sure you can mostly hit the green from 120 or whatever, but in reality you're just mad that your 60 yard chip is 30 feet from the hole but safely on the green. Meanwhile you hit 7/10 greens from 120 and 9/10 greens from 60.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

I'll play devils advocate here as I don't fully agree with Lanny. I feel that hitting as near to the green as possible is almost always the best strategy. There is this concept that a 60 yard shot is harder than a 120 yard shot and I fully disagree. One is half the distance of the other! I think this idea comes from the fact that at 60 yards you have a much higher expectation of how close you should end up to the hole than when you are 120 yards. So it feels like your 60 yards shots are worse because maybe your expectations are too high for that distance, but I'd wager than almost everyone averages closer to the hole when hitting from a shorter distance than a longer distance.

I think you may have missed the point of the course management strategy. I'll reiterate what I said earlier, just reorganize it.

My recommendation for course management is to understand which are your best scoring clubs and which yardages you make your best swings from. Play to your strength! You should be hitting to where you are successful the most. That should be your target yardage off the tee. If you're consistent at hitting your target to five yards +/- from 100 yards, or the same from 125 yards, why hit down to 65-80 yards where you are a 50% player from that yardage? It doesn't make sense. If you suck inside of 80 yards, why are you hitting to that yardage off the tee so much? If this is a strength, use it, but if it is a weakness you are burning strokes.

That's not to say course management is not important and Lanny makes other great points. The idea that hitting a longer shot is somehow better always kind of gets under my skin though. If those shorter shots are harder for you, I'd argue practicing them is the way to improve the score rather than putting yourself in a worse position to avoid them. Hit enough shots from 60 yards and you'll get much better!

The problem with this strategy is you are hitting half and three quarter shots. These are touch shots and require a lot of practice and ability. Not many players have those shots in their bag, regardless of practice. Most amateurs struggle to take even a little off their shot, let alone gearing down to a half or three quarter shot. These are tough to master, and once you take a break, they are the hardest to hit and last to come back into your bag. The full swing is very easy to recover after a break, for obvious reasons. The touch shots are more difficult. There is a reason why the golf adage of "the first thing to goes is the hands" exists is because it is true. Even the top players in the world have to work exceptionally hard in this regard after a break, and some never recover those hands after a lengthy break.

I'm not saying you should not pursue this strategy. If you believe you have this ability, more power to you, you are a way better player than 99% of the players that take to the golf course. Use this to your advantage. But this obviously means you are playing to your strength and you are hitting to where you are successful the most. From my experience most players struggle with those touch shots and tend to make more mistakes trying to hit the fractional shot, especially when hazards are in play, and forcing them to make an even more difficult second pitch. If you're good from 60 yards, use it to your advantage. But for a lot of people, that is way too close to the green to hit a full shot which us why amateurs should think twice about this.

I guess the question to ask Slava here is how far do you normally hit your clubs and which ones do you hit and score with best?

[Slava]

I think for me, I hit my 3w pretty well and probably not a lot less than the driver. As far as irons, I feel pretty good with 125-135 yards and probably hit greens or am close from there. I’m going to try a round or two considering that and see how it goes.

[jayswin]

In fact I still catch myself being tricked psychologically to feel good or bad based on distance.

140 yard approach catches the front left green, leaving a 42 foot putt with two shelves to navigate. "Nice approach, on the green, that felt great!!".

55 yard approach goes left of target spot, leaving a 12 foot, uphill putt with no break. "**** I hate those short ones, I need to be better!"

[Slava]

I can see that also. You think from 55 yards that you should’ve put it within 10 feet. I think that statistically though, not many players can consistently do that. For me, some days my chipping and pitching is just magic. Other days not so much though!

[jayswin]

Weird, I don't find half or 3/4 swings that hard, and I find lots of aspects of golf hard. The hardest part of laying off swings for me was actually figuring out what the distance change would be with the lay off.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by jayswin

In fact I still catch myself being tricked psychologically to feel good or bad based on distance.

140 yard approach catches the front left green, leaving a 42 foot putt with two shelves to navigate. "Nice approach, on the green, that felt great!!".

55 yard approach goes left of target spot, leaving a 12 foot, uphill putt with no break. "**** I hate those short ones, I need to be better!"

How about over cooking your 55 yard approach over the green and into a pond?
Cause I just did that an hour ago

[Enoch Root]

For me, if I can get it close, like within 30 yards of the green, with little risk of ending up in a bunker, I'll do that.

However, if there are lots of bunkers, or if I can only get to within 50-70 yards, I'll target 100 yards for sure.

I think part of the 'lay it up to your number' strategy is that you have to actually practice that distance. When I decided to start doing that, I hit tons and tons of 100 yd shots. Now I feel so confident at 100, I prefer to lay up to that distance.

However, I hear all of you - if I can get close (within 30), I will do that.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Slava

I can see that also. You think from 55 yards that you should’ve put it within 10 feet. I think that statistically though, not many players can consistently do that. For me, some days my chipping and pitching is just magic. Other days not so much though!

I can tell you on the chipping green before my round whether I'll shoot 82 or 92.

It's mostly there, but every few rounds it's like it was never there at all, haha.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

How about over cooking your 55 yard approach over the green and into a pond?
Cause I just did that an hour ago

And therein lies the risk of hitting too close to your target. Making a controlled fractional shot is more difficult, which is why you manage the course and put yourself in good scoring range. Course management is what makes low single digit handicaps and what keeps other players in double digits. All players that become good players have this epiphany. They take what the course gives them and use it to their advantage. When there is danger in play, put yourself in position where you're minimizing that danger. If it is clear, wail away and take it as close as possible. But if you're playing a course with lots of hazards play the game smart and put yourself in position to take as many of those hazards out of the mix. Lay back and hit the full club so you take the back hazards out of play 90% of the time.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

For me, if I can get it close, like within 30 yards of the green, with little risk of ending up in a bunker, I'll do that.

That's course management. That's smart. But what if there is a bunker right in front of the pin, not a lot of green to work with, and a second hazard behind your target? You're going to make the smarter play to eliminate the long hazard and lay up. That or shoot away from the pin and provide yourself a bailout should you mi#### that touch shot.

However, if there are lots of bunkers, or if I can only get to within 50-70 yards, I'll target 100 yards for sure.

That's just smart Enoch. Good to see other players recognize this. That's the whole strategy of course management. When you work with a caddy they are going to ask you what shot you feel most comfortable with. They are going to help you find that zone and set you up for success. Why shouldn't you do that yourself as a player? Good golfers do that. They know the yardages where they are dialed in and they set themselves up to hit those yardages for their approach shots. They also know where to land the ball on the green and set their player up for success there. Many times amateurs attack every pin when the smart play is hit away from the pin and use the contour of the course to your benefit. It's course management.

I think part of the 'lay it up to your number' strategy is that you have to actually practice that distance. When I decided to start doing that, I hit tons and tons of 100 yd shots. Now I feel so confident at 100, I prefer to lay up to that distance.

For the weekend player and even some advanced players this is the strategy to follow. Get really good with a couple of scoring clubs and know how to use them consistently. I'm like you. I've flattened a number of 52 and 56 degree wedges to be really proficient at 100-125 yards. I can make both of those clubs work with a high degree of efficiency. My weakest is my 60 degree, which I am solid with at 80-85 yards, but when standing at 60 yards have been known to be able to hit that wedge 160 yards (forehead). I've got really nice touch from about 40 yards with all three wedges, but that 45-80 yard gap is consistently my undoing. So what do I do? Stay away from that yardage at all costs. If I do find myself in that range I find the fattest part of the green with the biggest bailout areas and use that to my advantage. The hero shots are cool when they work out, but when you hit it long and into the ####, or you dump it short and into the bunker that takes two to get out of, you just made a mess of a hole you should have managed better.

How many times have you gone after a pin where you end up missing and leaving yourself no green to work with (shorting yourself)? Aren't those the holes you walk away from shaking your head and questioning your decisions about how you played that hole? Course management. It's kind of like when you see a yardage book available for sale in the shop, do you buy it? The answer should be yes, every time, because it helps you manage the course and not let the course manage you.

However, I hear all of you - if I can get close (within 30), I will do that.

We all agree on this. If you have a chance to throw it in where there are no obstructions and you have a reasonably good landing spot to attack the pin, go for it. But if you don't have those conditions, play to spots where you can get your you best scoring clubs on the ball.

That's the cool thing about golf. There is a strategy for everyone. Some are a lot more successful than others and some take a lot more time to learn the benefits of playing the game certain ways. But golf is a game between you and yourself. The only measure that really matters is how you feel when you walk off the course. If you feel you crushed it out there, that's all that matters. If you feel you can do better out there, maybe its time to try a different strategy? But you only come to this realization yourself and that only comes through play and experience.

Here's a question for everyone that may be a little telling. How many balls do you go through in a round, or how many rounds to you get out of a ball?

[Weitz]

I’ve been anywhere from an 8-15 cap over the last 5 years. Best scoring is always hit it as close to the green as possible while avoiding water. Always gets the best results.

[DoubleK]

Lots of good discussion on how to get better. This is probably the best example of YMMV on any particular tip, strategy or concept.

What helped me this year was focusing more on the mental side of the game and tailoring my expectations to my ability level.

For those that use the tweeter. Jon Sherman is a really good follow, and his new book is fantastic. Here's a good thread on what you can expect from him.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Ahhh, the old mental aspect of the game. You know why they call it the mental aspect? You don't get it under control golf will drive you mental!

Sherman is an interesting fellow. A buddy of mine who is still up in Calgary sent me one of his tweets last week about equipment because I gave him crap about changing equipment every three months (it's not the arrow...) and his tweet was something similar. Lots of things you can print and stick on cart as reminders. Some good advice, some points to argue about. What I like about him is he's trying to help the game become more accessible for players of all levels. Good share.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Lots of good discussion on how to get better. This is probably the best example of YMMV on any particular tip, strategy or concept.

What helped me this year was focusing more on the mental side of the game and tailoring my expectations to my ability level.

For those that use the tweeter. Jon Sherman is a really good follow, and his new book is fantastic. Here's a good thread on what you can expect from him.

I read his book and it’s pretty good. I have tried to implement some of the things he talks about, and some of those things have been helpful. He suggests aiming for the back of the green, and that makes some sense to me. I do like that a lot of his advice and tips are fairly common sense oriented and not related to how to swing or technical concerns.