I was stuck behind a car going 40 in my neighborhood for a long stretch last week and it was driving me crazy as it's so slow. Driving 30 in a playground zone is only palpable because you know it's only for a few blocks and even at that I'm typically going 35 or so because it feels like you are at a cycling speed.
It's funny because those who agree with reducing to 30 are imagining the speed of a quiet side street (50 is too fast); while those oppose it are imagining Elbow Drive and every other collector road in basically every neighbourhood where 30 is retar-deadly (pun intended in this case) slow.
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Originally Posted by topfiverecords
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Last edited by Ducay; 12-02-2019 at 04:04 PM.
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It's funny because those who agree with reducing to 30 are imagining the speed of a quiet side street (50 is too fast); while those oppose it are imagining Elbow Drive and every other collector road in basically every neighbourhood where 30 is retar-deadly (pun intended in this case) slow.
And that's the issue -- people who support this doesn't realize just how sweepingly broad these changes are going to be. Add to that is they don't know, acknowledge, or care about the fact that pedestrian collisions in this city overwhelmingly occur on streets and in areas that won't be affected by this change at all.
It's Helen Lovejoy in legislative form -- won't someone think of the children!
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On collector roads (main streets in communities), going below 50 km/h is stupid, and the public needs to fight council on this to ensure it doesn't happen.
On residential streets (off of collector roads), 30 km/h isn't unreasonable. It's not necessary (that's what playground zones are for), but it's not going to bitch too much about that.
And that's the issue -- people who support this doesn't realize just how sweepingly broad these changes are going to be. Add to that is they don't know, acknowledge, or care about the fact that pedestrian collisions in this city overwhelmingly occur on streets and in areas that won't be affected by this change at all.
It's Helen Lovejoy in legislative form -- won't someone think of the children!
First they came for our fluoride and I said nothing because I have no teeth.
Then they came for our School Zones and I said nothing because I live in a new suburb and they won't build a school in this neighbourhood for 20 years.
Now they come for my 50km/h speed limit and no one can speak up because we're all stuck in a traffic jam trying to leave our driveways.
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After what they call a careful review, it will be recommended that, in the long run, the city moves to a limit of 40 km/h on collector roads and 30 km/h in residential zones.
This would begin with changing the unposted speed limit to 40 km/h, then looking at ways to revise standards so the speeds can be lowered further.
However, they think compliance will be low and feedback from the police says that, while they agree this could improve safety, they believe it will be hard to enforce the limits.
From the linked article above.
I like the idea of changing unposted speed limits to 40km/h. That is a pretty reasonable change. Beyond that it gets stupid.
I think the city administration stating compliance will be low is important to note.
What is considered a collector? Elbow drive? Heritage? Southland, 162nd?
Safety concerns are used as a smokescreen. They have nothing to do with this motion. It is a f...n' cash grab and nothing else. We do not have a single city street that was not designed to accommodate 60 km/hr.
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Safety concerns are used as a smokescreen. They have nothing to do with this motion. It is a f...n' cash grab and nothing else. We do not have a single city street that was not designed to accommodate 60 km/hr.
Other than any street with parking along both sides in a residential area. At 60km/h I do not believe you have the stopping distance if a car is parked 5m from a crosswalk and a child is waiting to cross. The sitelines are not sufficient for 60km /hr in those situations.
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I like the idea of changing unposted speed limits to 40km/h. That is a pretty reasonable change. Beyond that it gets stupid.
I think the city administration stating compliance will be low is important to note.
What is considered a collector? Elbow drive? Heritage? Southland, 162nd?
Elbow Drive yes. The rest are arterial.
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Arterial Street
Arterial Streets provide a reasonably direct connection between multiple communities and major destinations and carry between 10,000 and 30,000 vehicles per day. They are typically spaced 800 to 1600 metres apart. Arterial Streets make up much of the Primary Transit Network. Green infrastructure strategies may include vegetated swales, rain gardens, filter strips, and native vegetation.
Bow Trail is an example of an Arterial Street.
Calgary.ca doesn't have a description of what a Collector Road is, but they are low-to-moderate-capacity roads which serves to move traffic from local streets to arterial roads. So these would be your main roads within the communities itself.
Fairmount Drive is another example of a Collector Road.
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What is considered a collector? Elbow drive? Heritage? Southland, 162nd?
Those should be considered arteries (except perhaps Elbow, which serves as a collector/artery hybrid). They connect neighbourhoods but don't pass through neighbourhoods and, for the most part, don't have any homes directly accessible from the road.
A collector should be those roads that have direct controlled access to the main arteries and a residential street should be the ones that connect to the collectors. Some residential streets have direct access to an artery, but it is usually not light-controlled.
As general guideline, I would say:
A residential street is smaller, lower capacity, and doesn't have painted lines. Often too narrow for two vehicles to comfortably pass each other if vehicles are parked on both sides of the street. Only intersects other residential streets or collectors. In older "grid" neighbourhoods, may intersect with an artery at a 2-way stop. Typically, will intersect a collector at a 2-way stop or a roundabout.
A collector is wider than a residential street, designed for a higher capacity, has painted lines and only one lane of travel in each direction. Street parking is usually allowed on a collector. Collectors usually have residences adjacent to them. Typically, will only have stop signs when they intersect another collector and lights when they intersect an artery.
An artery is a much higher-capacity road that typically connects neighbourhoods but doesn't pass through neighbourhoods. Usually has at least 2 lanes of travel in each direction. Higher-speed arteries often have a physical barrier or median between the opposite lanes of travel. The only traffic controls on an artery are traffic lights when it intersects with a collector or another artery. Arteries usually are not directly accessible from residences and usually don't allow street parking (although, some may allow street parking adjacent to "main street" style street-front retailers which have limited on-site parking).
Of course, there are always going to be exceptions to those rules. In older neighbourhoods that have a grid layout, it's hard to differentiate between residential and collector roads because they all connect and can get you to where you're going. That's where I'd say the lines vs. no lines rule is an effective way to differentiate. Older roads like Elbow Drive, Centre Street North, and Edmonton Trail often act like collectors within a neighbourhood, but also serve as arteries between neighbourhoods. They also often have houses adjacent to the street and allow street parking at certain times of the day.
Newer neighbourhoods can have their own issues. For example, what is McKenzie Lake Blvd? It serves as a collector for the McKenzie Lake neighbourhood and doesn't connect between multiple neighbourhoods, but its design is closer to an artery.
Keep in mind, these are my own definitions of how I would expect the city to define these different roads, but ultimately they could do things differently. I would be surprised if they decided that roads like Centre Street North, Edmonton Trail, or Elbow Drive were set at 40 km/h --- but you never know.
It's also important to remember that these are only the unposted limits and the city could increase or lower the speed on any road they wanted just by posting a new sign.
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I've said it before, if you want to reduce or eliminate pedestrian accidents then you need to breed better pedestrians.
A big issue I have here is that Pedestrians have every right-of-way so often they're not paying attention to their surroundings.
Having the right-of-way or 'being in the right' is small consolation after getting hit by a vehicle.
We have people getting hit by trains constantly FFS. They're on tracks and have gates and mechanical arms and flashing lights and loud bells and it still happens! No wonder pedestrians get hit by cars.
It seems counter-intuitive to place all of the onus of responsibility on vehicle traffic that is travelling at speeds greater than that of a pedestrian as opposed to teaching people not to be idiots in traffic.
Maybe we need to send some pedestrians abroad to other countries to learn how to safely co-exist with vehicular traffic.
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