If Wayne Gretzky played today, is he better than Sid? Is 99 the GOAT?

[FlameyMcFlameFace]

Now before I get flamed, I have an interesting argument. My friends and I were having a nice Sunday night pint and pondered the possibility that if Gretzky played today would he be as dominant as say a Sidney Crosby. My buddies and I are all around 22-23, so we didn't really get a chance to watch Gretzky play. All we have is those old video highlights we can search.

Stats wise, Gretzky is king. In fact, untouchable... for the rest of time... But he played in a "weaker" NHL. Now before some 30+ year olds tear me apart saying "you millennials know nothing" hear me out. By weaker I mean, the players were simply not as fast, skilled, or big. The goaltending was not as good. I like to refer to those days as the NHL still in its growing days, its a young professional sport. Only now are we starting to see the level of play in the NHL hit what I would call top levels. I know thats bold to say that our time period is close to top levels but lets take an example. 50 years before this date the year was 1967. Now the level of hockey in the NHL was much different than it is today. Lets go 50 years in the future, that brings us to 2067. In that year we might see some smaller changes in the game but nevertheless I think the standard of play will be much closer between 2017-2067 than 1967-2017. Im basing that estimate off my argument to say the NHL is now reaching top levels. We are blessed in live in a time period to see optimal professional sporting levels from the players.

I do not want to take anything away from Gretzky. Nor do I from the likes of Sid. This argument can be brought forth not just of Gretzky but of Gordie Howe, Bobby Orr, etc. These guys are legends. Pioneers of the growing game. Take note of me saying growing game. It's like there is an invisible law which states to never say anyone is better than Gretzky, Howe, Orr. And if you say that you're automatically a dumb millennial that knows nothing about hockey. To me, being a legend/pioneer of the game is not the same as the GOAT. I strongly believe Sidney Crosby is best skilled/overall player of all time. But it feels like its almost absurd to say he's better than those three because of that unwritten rule.

Quite the beer conversation eh! We then started this argument with literally every other sport. It seems like older generation players tend to be valued higher than our best players in this generation. But arguments and facts can say that our generation of sport is amongst the highest humans have seen.

Weird.

[GordonBlue]

MOD EDIT: Not a good contribution to the discussion.

[midniteowl]

May be the question should be: If Gretzky played today, is he better than McDavid?

[FBI]

I just can't get excited talking about Gretzky...

[rain_e]

Originally Posted by FBI

I just can't get excited talking about Gretzky...

Not even Paulina? They make a pill for that.

[Jason14h]

IF Gretzky played today, would he score more OT winners then Monahan?

[transplant99]

Forget the stats, the era, the goaltending....all of it.

Fact is, no one will ever convince me that he isn't the single smartest/skilled combination of a player the game has ever seen...period. I was around and was an adamant hockey/Flames fan for his entire career starting in 79 when he was traded to the Oilers. I was a hard core and avowed hater of all things Edmonton at that time, and even with all that it isnt even begrudgingly that I admit no one has been better....and i dont think its even close.

Mario was the next best because of his combination of size/strength and talent along with Howe because of his toughness/skill/strength combo.

Crosby is a distant 4th to me at best. Orr would actually slot in ahead of Sid as well but because he is a D (and his premature exit from the game) I leave the debate among forwards.

To steal from the Hitman himself...the best there was, the best there is and the best there ever will be.

Ugh.

[White Out 403]

If Gretz played today and had todays training and conditioning he would be a beast. Agree with above poster, if Mario hadn't had so many injuries he'd be up there too. Marios size and speed and skill was unreal.

[rain_e]

Gaudreau can shine in this league now. I'm pretty sure Gretzky would be just fine.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Meh. 1996 NHL season. Lemieux puts up a 189 point pace. This is against Brodeur, Roy and Hasek. They are no match for Brian Elliot, but they were okay goalies.

This was after his back surgery and that little cancer thing.

Say what you want about Gretzky vs Lemieux...they were close, so if out of prime Lemieux could do it so could in his prime Gretzky (Gretzky also played in the clutch and grab era and did fine for his age). And Lemieux was dominate against players who played with and against Crosby so we do have a baseline to compare. Like Sakic for example....or Jagr.

Crosby is closer to Sakic than Lemieux.

[dash_pinched]

Gretzky would be fun to watch especially in 3-on-3 OT. Of course, if Marc Crawford was behind the bench, he wouldn't use him in the shootout.

/Yup, still bitter.

[Locke]

Considering how often the Refs give penalties if someone whines enough I think Gretzky would do just fine.

[topfiverecords]

If Gretzky played today, on this Oilers rebuild version, would he get the C over McDavid?

[Nadal Fan]

When a 35 year old Mario Lemieux came back from being retired for 4 years and put up 76 points in 43 games in 2000 it should have killed the players from the past wouldn't be able to play in today's game argument.

[looooob]

the interesting thing is I have actually seen some current day Oilers fans argue that McDavid is the more impressive OFFENSIVE player when adjusted for offense/era even over their 'own' number 99

I'm hoping those are younger fans because as much as I despised Wayne and I can concur that goaltending and everything has improved I just can't see that one

in Gretzky's 3rd season he was 92-120-212 for crying out loud

[Finger Cookin]

I think, all things being equal, Gretzky coming up in the new millennium would be just as dominant compared to his peers as he was in the 80s. He just thought, saw, and processed the game on a completely different level than anyone else on the ice. And I think that ability would still put him above today's players assuming he benefited from the same training and conditioning as today's players do.

The stats might not be quite as prolific simply because the gap between the best players and "mere" world class NHL players has narrowed. But I think Gretzky would still be a standout in the modern age.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

IF Gretzky played today, would he score more OT winners then Monahan?

I would imagine a trio of Gretzky/Kurri/Coffey would do some damage 3 on 3...no doubt.

[CaptainCrunch]

Its a weird question to debate

I don't think that Gretzky was physicallly gifted.

He wasn't the best straight forwards skater but he had those funny hips that could let him turn on the time.

His slap shot wouldn't have broken a piece of glass in front of him, nor would his wrist shot, but he was accurate.

He couldn't win a board battle to save his life, but he had a really quick stick.

He had a lot of benefits back then in terms of the late 70's and early 80's being a pretty talentless league without Russian players or as many euro's to fill the league.

the coaching for the most part wasn't great, we had players running 2 minute shifts and they didn't really have a system, that is until the mid to late 80's when we got into the trap era.

Most teams after their top pairing defensemen and top line were filled with beer league quality players, and it was the age of goons who couldn't turn.

but he had a peerless vision of the ice and a idiot savants ability to understand where the open spots on the ice were and where the puck and players were going. His vision was like one of us playing a hockey video game where your viewing the whole ice surface from the press box.

I believe he would be a 100 to 110 point player in this era, the coaches are too good and the players can all for the most part skate, and they play a system and play it well.

Realistically there are no open spaces for the type of hockey that Gretzky needed to score 200 points + a year.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Better players is actually an argument for Gretzky. Imagine if he had two good wingers on his line that could see the game closer than those absolute ####-good-for-nothing 80s players. Put him with Gaudreau and they are both scoring 70. And finally Gaudreau would have a first line center.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

I think, all things being equal, Gretzky coming up in the new millennium would be just as dominant compared to his peers as he was in the 80s. He just thought, saw, and processed the game on a completely different level than anyone else on the ice. And I think that ability would still put him above today's players assuming he benefited from the same training and conditioning as today's players do.

The stats might not be quite as prolific simply because the gap between the best players and "mere" world class NHL players has narrowed. But I think Gretzky would still be a standout in the modern age.

In the 80s. Currently players are taught and coached to see the game at least as well if not better.

Seriously, go and watch some of those games. They are grim.