Climate change and human responsibility

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Just what we need... another nightmare greenhouse gas to worry about.



https://news.mit.edu/2024/atmospheri...oride-sf6-0328



Sulfur Hexafluoride (SF6) is 24,300 times more effective at trapping heat in the atmosphere than CO2, and stays in the atmosphere for more than 1000 years.

It's not something to worry about. Yes we should limit these emissions, but in context it's not anywhere near many other GHG and they're much easier to limit than methane or CO2. It's waaaay down the list of things to worry about.

Yearly global CO2 emissions: 37.5 Gigatons
Yearly methane emissions: 0.135 Gigatons
Yearly global SF6 emissions: .000009 Gigatons

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

It's not something to worry about. Yes we should limit these emissions, but in context it's not anywhere near many other GHG and they're much easier to limit than methane or CO2. It's waaaay down the list of things to worry about.

Yearly global CO2 emissions: 37.5 Gigatons
Yearly methane emissions: 0.135 Gigatons
Yearly global SF6 emissions: .000009 Gigatons

And it makes your voice sound cool.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Just what we need... another nightmare greenhouse gas to worry about.

https://news.mit.edu/2024/atmospheri...oride-sf6-0328

Sulfur Hexafluoride (SF6) is 24,300 times more effective at trapping heat in the atmosphere than CO2, and stays in the atmosphere for more than 1000 years.

What specifically is your fear around SF6? Yes it’s terrible for the environment when released but what part of handling the gas to its use in high voltage applications is concerning to you?

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

What specifically is your fear around SF6? Yes it’s terrible for the environment when released but what part of handling the gas to its use in high voltage applications is concerning to you?

There are other insulating gases that can be used in place of SF6. Even if it was an issue, there are other options.

It's not near the problem that PCBs were back in the day. This wasn't even on the list of operational concerns at the utility I worked at. Wildfire, Cyber, Rates/affordability. That's the list.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

There are other insulating gases that can be used in place of SF6. Even if it was an issue, there are other options.

It's not near the problem that PCBs were back in the day. This wasn't even on the list of operational concerns at the utility I worked at. Wildfire, Cyber, Rates/affordability. That's the list.

Yeah there are other options for sure but like everything they have drawbacks as well, cost, corrosion and toxicity among them.

SF6 is very safe to handle from a health perspective, it’s fairly abundant and has great dielectric properties. It’s also reasonably priced and has a ton of equipment compatible with it. The 2 biggest drawbacks being the environmental impact of a release as well as the production of SO2 during arcing events. SO2 forms as a white powder when exposed to exceptional levels of heat and is highly cancerous, however I have very rarely seen the presence of SO2 in equipment (maybe twice out of thousands of tests).

[Azure]

Well that is a relief. The fear-mongering almost had me worried.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

It's not something to worry about. Yes we should limit these emissions, but in context it's not anywhere near many other GHG and they're much easier to limit than methane or CO2. It's waaaay down the list of things to worry about.

Yearly global CO2 emissions: 37.5 Gigatons
Yearly methane emissions: 0.135 Gigatons
Yearly global SF6 emissions: .000009 Gigatons

You're missing a lot of context here.

You only need .00004 Gigatons of SF6 to equal 1 gigaton of CO2.

But it's actually a lot worse than that, because CO2 can be removed from the atmosphere via photosynthesis or other methods. Methane dissipates on its own after 12 years. SF6 stays in the atmosphere permanently one released, and there's no way to get it out.

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

What specifically is your fear around SF6? Yes it’s terrible for the environment when released but what part of handling the gas to its use in high voltage applications is concerning to you?

It's not "fear", it's concern due to a real potential danger. SF6 sometimes leaks, and it doesn't take a whole lot of leaks before it starts causing real and very long lasting harm. SF6 emissions may be very low now, but they are sharply increasing. And the real amount of leaks could be higher than what's reported.

Originally Posted by Azure

Well that is a relief. The fear-mongering almost had me worried.

Always resorting to snarky assholish one liners. Well done Azure.

[TherapyforGlencross]

It looks like the rise of SF6 emissions line up directly with the push for electric power grids in China. Are there other insulators or is this the best we have to our technology? Honest question, no idea on this.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

It's not something to worry about. Yes we should limit these emissions, but in context it's not anywhere near many other GHG and they're much easier to limit than methane or CO2. It's waaaay down the list of things to worry about.

Yearly global CO2 emissions: 37.5 Gigatons
Yearly methane emissions: 0.135 Gigatons
Yearly global SF6 emissions: .000009 Gigatons

As if a pharmacist would know anything about concentrations!

[edslunch]

Nothing to see here….



Orange is 2022, new line is 2024

Edit: data since 1981

[Fuzz]

Let's get to the beach!

[photon]

Nothing to sea here... It was right there...

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by photon

Nothing to sea here... It was right there...

Swim and a miss

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross

It looks like the rise of SF6 emissions line up directly with the push for electric power grids in China. Are there other insulators or is this the best we have to our technology? Honest question, no idea on this.

The most common insulators for the electric grid in circuit breakers in high voltage applications in Calgary are mineral oil and SF6. Currently they are “the best”, however it’s important to note that if we look at the progression of oil filled circuit breakers and their advancements is that there is room to improve on design.

Some of the oldest styles of oil filled circuit were basically tanks filled to the teets with mineral oil. They were called called bulk oil circuit breakers and they looked like this:

Spoiler!

These units lasted years and years but were one bad seal or weld away from making an enormous mess. Over the years they developed high voltage circuit breakers containing vastly smaller quantities of oil, called minimum oil circuit breakers. Take a look at the “newer” models of oil filled circuit breakers:

Spoiler!

There is room to improve the design of SF6 circuit breakers to use less gas while still providing a safe insulating medium. The fretting of the use of SF6 like some users have is fair, as some places in the world won’t care if they piss out an entire bottle of SF6 into the atmosphere. But that isn’t Canada, and you would get into a whole world of trouble for that type of release if you did that here.

You can look to countries with terrible environmental track records who (likely) would abuse the use of SF6, you can wag your finger at them, and then go back about your daily business because they aren’t going to give a damn about your opinion. It’s a great product if used properly, and I’ve worked with it a great deal, but it can be harmful if used incorrectly, like almost everything on this planet.

[Azure]

Based on analysis in our most recent U.S. Energy-Related Carbon Dioxide Emissions report, U.S. energy-related CO2 emissions decreased by 3%, about 134 million metric tons (MMmt), in 2023.

Over 80% of the emissions reductions occurred in the electric power sector, caused largely by decreased coal-fired electricity generation, which was displaced by increased generation from solar and natural gas. Electric power sector emissions decreased to about 1,425 MMmt in 2023, about 7% less than in 2022.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/de...id=FirstUpdate

Wait, wait, wait, I thought we were told switching from coal to natural gas is NOT the solution?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Azure

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/de...id=FirstUpdate

Wait, wait, wait, I thought we were told switching from coal to natural gas is NOT the solution?

We’re also being told that solar isn’t the answer either by certain elected officials.

[Azure]

Solar really isn't the answer. It is a stop gap solution until we develop an energy source that doesn't require massive resources like solar does.

But for now its a good answer. Just like natural gas.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Azure

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/de...id=FirstUpdate

Wait, wait, wait, I thought we were told switching from coal to natural gas is NOT the solution?

Switching from coal to natural gas and increasing renewable penetration can't possibly be the solution, especially considering that Alberta hit a record low for emissions intensity THIS WEEK.

[Leondros]

Wait wait wait, lets get off coal, unless its too hard (costly) of course. Who didn't see this coming - citizens value energy costs over the environment every damn time. If Japan and Germany are back tracking, how do we expect India, China, etc. to follow suit?

Fossil fuels are going to be a very large part of energy mix for the rest of our lives.

https://www.reuters.com/business/ene...ys-2024-04-29/

Energy ministers from the Group of Seven (G7) major democracies will sign a deal to end the use of coal in power generation between 2030 and 2035, but could offer a leeway to Germany and Japan, two diplomatic sources said on Tuesday.

This caveat would give room to maneuver to Berlin and Tokyo, whose coal-fired plants produce more than one-fourth of their total electricity, sources said.

[Azure]

Getting off coal is easy. We have the technology to do it. Unfortunately the rest of the word doesn't, and it should be our responsibility to help them do it.

Unfortunately our government wants to virtue signal instead.