Rogan was “spewing” an antisemitic jewish stereotype, which nazi’s used in their propaganda, and one that dates back even further. “Jews and money” has been used to fuel hate, conspiracy theories, and all sorts of nonsense. So to sit and deny that there’s anything wrong with it shows a complete ignorance towards world history, one which I know you do not genuinely hold (because I know you’re smarter than this), so what is your actual game?
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Rogan was “spewing” an antisemitic jewish stereotype, which nazi’s used in their propaganda, and one that dates back even further. “Jews and money” has been used to fuel hate, conspiracy theories, and all sorts of nonsense. So to sit and deny that there’s anything wrong with it shows a complete ignorance towards world history, one which I know you do not genuinely hold (because I know you’re smarter than this), so what is your actual game?
I have no end game with the discussion and I'm not trying to box people into some kind of 'gotcha' moment. I have listened to Rogan enough to know that he is not some frothy at the mouth racist or anti-semite. Sometimes I think people view the source first without critically thinking about the content or context of what's said.
blankall says all generalizations are racist. Really? That's about as broad a stroke I've ever seen. If that is the case then my previous point stands in that literally everyone, everywhere is and are racist / racists. Diluting racism to that extreme strips down the words' efficacy in making real change for shaming most people into self-reflection, acceptance, tolerance and the rejection of prejudice- which is what this is about. I don't think Rogan is being intentionally prejudicial with that statement- the same way I don't think Trudeau is a racist for painting his face black. Specifically based on Trudeau's history and who he is and what we know about him- is he racist? Of course not. Same thing here.
I have no end game with the discussion and I'm not trying to box people into some kind of 'gotcha' moment. I have listened to Rogan enough to know that he is not some frothy at the mouth racist or anti-semite. Sometimes I think people view the source first without critically thinking about the content or context of what's said.
blankall says all generalizations are racist. Really? That's about as broad a stroke I've ever seen. If that is the case then my previous point stands in that literally everyone, everywhere is and are racist / racists. Diluting racism to that extreme strips down the words' efficacy in making real change for shaming most people into self-reflection, acceptance, tolerance and the rejection of prejudice- which is what this is about. I don't think Rogan is being intentionally prejudicial with that statement- the same way I don't think Trudeau is a racist for painting his face black. Specifically based on Trudeau's history and who he is and what we know about him- is he racist? Of course not. Same thing here.
Blackface is not racist, it is offensive, people that dont care or dont know they are offending black people are either racist or stupid but blackface itself isnt racist
I have no end game with the discussion and I'm not trying to box people into some kind of 'gotcha' moment. I have listened to Rogan enough to know that he is not some frothy at the mouth racist or anti-semite. Sometimes I think people view the source first without critically thinking about the content or context of what's said.
blankall says all generalizations are racist. Really? That's about as broad a stroke I've ever seen. If that is the case then my previous point stands in that literally everyone, everywhere is and are racist / racists. Diluting racism to that extreme strips down the words' efficacy in making real change for shaming most people into self-reflection, acceptance, tolerance and the rejection of prejudice- which is what this is about. I don't think Rogan is being intentionally prejudicial with that statement- the same way I don't think Trudeau is a racist for painting his face black. Specifically based on Trudeau's history and who he is and what we know about him- is he racist? Of course not. Same thing here.
This is where we are now. Like you can generalize that Asians are good at math but that's racist because it puts pressure on all Asians to be good at math but some aren't and that would lower their self esteem. A coworker of mine hates Dim Sum and people actually asked me if that was ok. We are walking on eggshells.
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Of course saying asians are good at math is racist, any and all racial generalizations are racist, some dont cause harm but its all racist
This is where I think careful use of more precise language would be beneficial.
The majority of these racial or cultural generalizations are simply stereotyping, which is a pretty typical human process we use to organize and make sense of the world. Some of them are useful, some of them are benign, and some of them are harmful.
A problem I have is the saturation of the term racism and how its overuse is providing a defense of or for actual racism/racists.
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This is where I think careful use of more precise language would be beneficial.
The majority of these racial or cultural generalizations are simply stereotyping, which is a pretty typical human process we use to organize and make sense of the world. Some of them are useful, some of them are benign, and some of them are harmful.
A problem I have is the saturation of the term racism and how its overuse is providing a defense of or for actual racism/racists.
The problem with restricting the use of the term racism to stereotypes that are harmful is it requires knowing what is going on in the mind of a racist to work out what is racist, the vast majority of hatred by racists to Chinese and East Indians is because they think that Asians are taking their jobs because they work hard and are good at maths, personally I think all racial stereotypes are inherently racist but not all do harm, I'm English, I have spent my whole life in Canada having to go along with jokes about my teeth, its mildly racist but I can live with it, it isnt really much different than making jokes about another races lips but that is highly offensive, I dont think you can parse one from the other, it's all racist in the end
Blackface is not racist, it is offensive, people that dont care or dont know they are offending black people are either racist or stupid but blackface itself isnt racist
What the hell?
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This is where I think careful use of more precise language would be beneficial.
The majority of these racial or cultural generalizations are simply stereotyping, which is a pretty typical human process we use to organize and make sense of the world. Some of them are useful, some of them are benign, and some of them are harmful.
A problem I have is the saturation of the term racism and how its overuse is providing a defense of or for actual racism/racists.
I think we have actually seen morphism in this regard, just less in the way people assume and more in the other direction.
"Racism" is more or less being correctly applied in this instance. While the word is loaded/has weight due to being incorrectly used in the past, it doesn't diminish the fact that saying "x does y (due to their race)" is an inherently racist statement.
Nowadays, when someone is "racist" or says "racist" things, but also espouses negative sentiment towards a racial group, they are also typically called a "bigot", because their behavior is characteristic of a bigoted person. This is also why you see commentators denote that a person/statement is both "racist" and "bigoted" and not just one or the other.
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Attributing a character trait to someone or a group of people based on their ancestry or skin colour is racist. This isn't difficult.
Sure, just as long as we all agree that based on your definition (and others, today), some racism is complementary for a given group of people. Ergo, not all racism is bad, in your definition.
I was under impression racism is linked with prejudice, discrimination, etc. Negative problems routed in racism. So my mistake, based on your descriptor.
Sure, just as long as we all agree that based on your definition (and others, today), some racism is complementary for a given group of people. Ergo, not all racism is bad, in your definition.
I was under impression racism is linked with prejudice, discrimination, etc. Negative problems routed in racism. So my mistake, based on your descriptor.
I didn't think you were being malicious. It's a common blindspot. Unfortunately, "complimentary" racism still contributes to harmful outcomes for people it's targeted towards. For instance, physical stereotypes can cause anxiety and insecurity in people who don't match said stereotypes.
Also, if you think about it, it's kind of a dick move to attribute someone's accomplishments or skills to their race as opposed to crediting them for their achievements.
Also, if you think about it, it's kind of a dick move to attribute someone's accomplishments or skills to their race as opposed to crediting them for their achievements.
To the best of anyone's knowledge Orson Welles wasn't a racist, when he filmed Othello in blackface in the 50's no one considered it racist, blackface has become offensive but it isnt inherently racist, that said there are forms of blackface that have always been racist.
Last edited by afc wimbledon; 02-08-2023 at 02:54 PM.
Within the context of this discussion, "racial"/"racist" attributes are "in-born" physical or mental attributes, not social phenomena.
You're basically describing a D&D Racial granting +2 Charisma and when interacting with other races within Human capitols
Perhaps part of the problem with any discussion around racism is that a lot of time is spent explaining the meaning of simple things like “character trait” or “physical or mental attributes” to people who pretend to have a PhD while waiting for their opportunity to say it’s actually racist to assume that Black people are more likely to experience racism.
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To the best of anyone's knowledge Orson Welles wasn't a racist, when he filmed Othello in blackface in the 50's no one considered it racist, blackface has become offensive but it isnt inherently racist, that said there are forms of blackface that have always been racist.
The fact that ORSON WELLES appeared in blackface might be an indication that the society of that time was indeed very racist.
