July 23 Practice notes

[Kovaz]

Originally Posted by MikeMc

Ryan is a much more consistent and trusted player...so this makes sense to me.

By all means Bennett go ahead and show up consistently on both sides of the puck and force your way off the fourth line.

This 'wrong linemates' and 'coaches don't give him a chance' narrative is incorrect and lame.

Personally I root for the guy, and every year I'm hoping he takes the next step - but he is what he is (at least right now). A depth forward who doesn't put up points. How does he have 4 assists in 52 games?

When he's playing with Jankowski and Rieder, the assists thing starts to make sense. I dug into Bennett's numbers back in March, so about a week before the shutdown, and the main reasons he has so few assists are:

1. His linemates score about 50% as often as they should
2. He picked up 0 secondary assists (which are essentially random)

He's a solid 3rd liner who pushes things in the right direction, and I think he should be getting 12-15 minutes in that type of role, rather than 8-10 on the 4th line. I think he's our 8th-best forward, behind Ryan and ahead of Lucic and Dube. Which is why it's baffling to me that he keeps getting put at 4LW. IMO there are so many other configurations that make more sense.

If Bennett is a C, then he should be 4C over Jankowski.
If he's a W, then he should be on the 3rd line.
If we're prioritizing chemistry over having the best 3 players on the 3rd line, then IMO we'd get two better lines running Lucic-Bennett-Dube and Ryan between two plugs
If we want to maximize the contribution from Lucic and Dube, why doesn't the same logic apply to Bennett?

[MikeMc]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

When he's playing with Jankowski and Rieder, the assists thing starts to make sense. I dug into Bennett's numbers back in March, so about a week before the shutdown, and the main reasons he has so few assists are:

1. His linemates score about 50% as often as they should
   
2. He picked up 0 secondary assists (which are essentially random)
   

He's a solid 3rd liner who pushes things in the right direction, and I think he should be getting 12-15 minutes in that type of role, rather than 8-10 on the 4th line. I think he's our 8th-best forward, behind Ryan and ahead of Lucic and Dube. Which is why it's baffling to me that he keeps getting put at 4LW. IMO there are so many other configurations that make more sense.



If Bennett is a C, then he should be 4C over Jankowski.

If he's a W, then he should be on the 3rd line.

If we're prioritizing chemistry over having the best 3 players on the 3rd line, then IMO we'd get two better lines running Lucic-Bennett-Dube and Ryan between two plugs

If we want to maximize the contribution from Lucic and Dube, why doesn't the same logic apply to Bennett?

Good points. I still feel he's there because of a lack of trust, defensively and stupid penalty issues.

To me it's clear all 4 coach's he's had do not fully trust him in some way.

Maybe the playoff game is more suited to him and the refs let more go... I dunno.

Agreed that the overall 4th line of ours sucks donkey dong. Janko makes me insane.

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[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

The thing about it that pisses me off is I think Bennett and Dube have chemistry.

I would like to see the team try and harness that.

I’m also extremely sick of seeing the Bennett and Janko combination.

Anti-JankoBennett is a cause i can get behind.

[HighLifeMan]

Disregard this post. Complete brain dead moment!

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Bill Peters utilization of Bennett was poor from the very beginning of his tenure here, and Bennett's opportunities dwindled consistently over Peters 2 and 1/4 seasons in Calgary. That to me is the first instance of a coach not being overly enamored with his play, and unfortunately it's the only coach Bennett has had for more than one season in his career...

???

Bill Peters coached for a little more than one season in Calgary, and Bennett played two full seasons for Gulutzan.


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[Textcritic]

So, is there no practice today?

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[Toonage]

Scrimmage at 4:45 - and apparently 960 will be covering it

Edit - Now they're saying they will be covering the Jays. Honestly heard them say Lou & Pat would be covering it, so not sure what the deal was there. Sorry.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

The Bennett thing is bizarre. I agree with those observing that he has chemistry with Dube, and also looks good as a Center

For some reason, he has an incredibly short leash any time he gets good linemates.

Meanwhile, Mangiapane was given a ton of opportunity. He had, if I recall correctly, something like an 11 game pointless streak, and he had all the leash in the world. It paid off. Now I like Mangiapane and the player he has become.

Amazing how a player with consistent, quality linemates can develop

Bad streaks happen for all young players. Bennett himself I think had a 14+ pointless streak if I recall correctly.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

???

Bill Peters coached for a little more than one season in Calgary, and Bennett played two full seasons for Gulutzan.


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Hahaha, wow.

Disregard that entire post. I don't know where my brain went. It's been to long without hockey!

[mile]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

The Bennett thing is bizarre. I agree with those observing that he has chemistry with Dube, and also looks good as a Center

For some reason, he has an incredibly short leash any time he gets good linemates.

Meanwhile, Mangiapane was given a ton of opportunity. He had, if I recall correctly, something like an 11 game pointless streak, and he had all the leash in the world. It paid off. Now I like Mangiapane and the player he has become.

Amazing how a player with consistent, quality linemates can develop

The biggest mistake with Bennett was shifting him around to wing instead of being patient and developing him as a C even with the pointless streak at the start of Gulutzan's second season. This was the start of the Flames making it clear that they had no plan for Bennett, who then gets shuffled around various lines at all 3 positions for the next 3 years and has Jankowski as his most common linemate.

At the start of his first season, Peters made it clear very early that he needed for find more ice time for Bennett, and used him occasionally on the 2nd line. IMO Bennett's first season under Peters was a slight improvement compared to to Gulutzan years. Unfortunately, he was still shuffled around at different positions with no stability with quality linemates.

Now with Ward, it looks his usage of Bennett is even worse than Gulutzan's. With no injuries, Bennett is now an everyday 4th line winger, even though he's seen how well Bennett can play at C with his own eyes.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by mile

Now with Ward, it looks his usage of Bennett is even worse than Gulutzan's. With no injuries, Bennett is now an everyday 4th line winger, even though he's seen how well Bennett can play at C with his own eyes.

I think a big part of the problem with this whole discussion is in how people are reading coaching decisions on the basis exclusively of Bennett's deployment. This is a case in point of that: Ward has to think about the entire team, not just Bennett. The reason Bennett plays on the fourth line is because he is the Flames's #4 or #5 centre. His deployment has far more to do with the overall depth at centre than anything else. If the lines are constructed from the middle-out, then of course he will slot behind Ryan, who is a much more important player that the coaches need on the ice in all situations as much as possible. Bennett's chemistry with certain players becomes a secondary issue when it comes to charting and deploying lines on the basis of centre depth, where Monahan, Backlund, Lindholm and Ryan are all correctly slotted ahead of him.

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[CsInMyBlood]

We have seen how ineffective Bennett has been on Backlund and Tkachuks wing. We have seen how ineffective he is on Monahan and Gaudreaus wing. Multiple times. How people can forget that is insane to me. He is a detriment in the top 6. So many plays die on his stick. He doesnt have the puckhandling, vision or playmaking skills to play with those cerebral players. His positioning without the puck is subpar. He doesn't read the play well enough to cover defensively. He kills offense and momentum with his continuous ridiculous offensive zone penalties.

This is why he can not play with top end players for any amount of time. Its very obvious that every coach he has had realizes this after watching shifts over and over again. Why would you stunt your good players with Bennetts game? Why drag down your top offensive threats?

Just tired of hearing that every coach hes had hasn't used him correctly. If he was so worthy why wouldnt even one of them see that after watching replays of his shifts over and over again? Peters stapled him to Tkachuk and Backlund when he got his hate on and was benching Frolik or playing him on the 4th line. He reluctantly had to swallow his pride and put Frolik back with them because of how ineffective they were with Sam in that spot and then that line instantly exploded with a 9 point night cementing the 3M once again.

Sam Bennett is the problem. Not his linemates. Not his coaches. Not his GM. Not his friends. Not his mom.

Believe it or not, Sam Bennett is responsible for the play of Sam Bennett.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

We have seen how ineffective Bennett has been on Backlund and Tkachuks wing. We have seen how ineffective he is on Monahan and Gaudreaus wing. Multiple times. How people can forget that is insane to me. He is a detriment in the top 6. So many plays die on his stick. He doesnt have the puckhandling, vision or playmaking skills to play with those cerebral players. His positioning without the puck is subpar. He doesn't read the play well enough to cover defensively. He kills offense and momentum with his continuous ridiculous offensive zone penalties.

This is why he can not play with top end players for any amount of time. Its very obvious that every coach he has had realizes this after watching shifts over and over again. Why would you stunt your good players with Bennetts game? Why drag down your top offensive threats?

Just tired of hearing that every coach hes had hasn't used him correctly. If he was so worthy why wouldnt even one of them see that after watching replays of his shifts over and over again? Peters stapled him to Tkachuk and Backlund when he got his hate on and was benching Frolik or playing him on the 4th line. He reluctantly had to swallow his pride and put Frolik back with them because of how ineffective they were with Sam in that spot and then that line instantly exploded with a 9 point night cementing the 3M once again.

Sam Bennett is the problem. Not his linemates. Not his coaches. Not his GM. Not his friends. Not his mom.

Believe it or not, Sam Bennett is responsible for the play of Sam Bennett.

Or, maybe not.

[Stanley]

It's almost as if people think lineups are set in stone and never change based on performance and matchups...

[CliffFletcher]

Derek Ryan is better at hockey than Sam Bennett. A lot better.

At 364 games in the NHL, Bennett is what he is - an energy player who cannot process the game well enough to generate offence consistently at the NHL level, and who still hasn’t learned to play a disciplined game.

[Toonage]

Nm

[dino7c]

So wait people are mad because Bennett "looked good" in inter-squad games lol

Ryan has been a far better player in actually NHL hockey games

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Derek Ryan is better at hockey than Sam Bennett. A lot better.

At 364 games in the NHL, Bennett is what he is - an energy player who cannot process the game well enough to generate offence consistently at the NHL level, and who still hasn’t learned to play a disciplined game.

Maybe. but, maybe he's not yet what he'll will be.

There's a lot that can be debated one way or another about Bennett, but I find over assured statements about what he is or isn't as though that defines what he might be as time goes on to be pretty silly. History is full of NHL players who found another level later in their careers.

Derek Ryan wasn't even close to sniffing the NHL at 24.

Sam Bennett has 128 points over 364 games at 24.

Mike Knuble had 103 points over the first 353 games of his career, at age 29. He went on to play 700 more games and add 450 more points.

Whether something is likely or not is one thing. But whatever Sam is now doesn't dictate what he could be.

[AC]

Bennett has earned a playoff performer reputation by IMO being our best even strength forward all 3 playoffs he's been involved with.

I don't think the desire to maximize his effectiveness is unreasonable.

I think most here also agree Ryan is better as the 3C... but the thought process is maybe the best thing for the team is if Ryan can improve the 4th line more than the drop-off from Ryan to Bennett on the 3rd line.

I see the logic as:
Dube - Ryan - Lucic = 8/10 as a 3rd line.
Rieder - Bennett - Rinaldo = 4/10 as a 4th line.

vs

Dube - Bennett - Lucic = 7/10 as a 3rd line.
Rieder - Ryan - Rinaldo = 6/10 as a 4th line.

We've heard multiple coaches talk about the issue with finding ways to get Bennett more ice time when he seems to be "on", which sounds like a concern about giving his linemates on the 4th line more ice time than they can handle. A better balance between the 3rd and 4th lines is intriguing IMO.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Maybe. but, maybe he's not yet what he'll will be.

There's a lot that can be debated one way or another about Bennett, but I find over assured statements about what he is or isn't as though that defines what he might be as time goes on to be pretty silly. History is full of NHL players who found another level later in their careers.

Derek Ryan wasn't even close to sniffing the NHL at 24.

Sam Bennett has 128 points over 364 games at 24.

Mike Knuble had 103 points over the first 353 games of his career, at age 29. He went on to play 700 more games and add 450 more points.

Whether something is likely or not is one thing. But whatever Sam is now doesn't dictate what he could be.

Yeah, there is always examples of late bloomers to reflect on.

Even though he's a Dman, and was never drafted, Gio is a prime example as well. At 24 years old he went and played a year in the KHL. Even when he came back he looked like a serviceable top 4 Dman at most for about 5 seasons, then he just took off as a top 10 Dman in the league at 30 and won the Norris at 35.

Brett Connolly is another guy, drafted 6th overall and never really did much until he was 24/25 and was working on back to back 20 goal, 40+ point seasons. If Bennett could even do that it'd be a nice surprise.

I don't think Bennett will ever take off, but it's certainly possible and I sure hope it happens.