[Game Takes] Game 2: Oilers 5 Flames 3 (Series tied 1-1)

[Rising_Oil_Prices]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

In the 2nd round

5 on 5 GF% Calgary 52.94 Edmonton 47.06

In the playoffs as a whole

5 on 5 GF% Calgary 54.29 Edmonton 53.33

Why is edm so much higher as a team in plus minus? Doesn’t plus minus only count when the teams are at even strength? Maybe I’m missing something then, 4 on 4 is still even strength yes?

Alright, I just thought about how I came up with my stat and there’s probably a flaw in my reasoning and I may have missed a few factors. Go on using the refs as your excuse. I’ll bow out of this.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Rising_Oil_Prices

Oilers are +24, in the playoffs so far, as a team, the flames are even. Please explain how the flames are the much superior team 5 on 5 and the oilers only score because of garbage penalties and their power play, in these playoffs? Also in this series, you’ve outscored the oilers on the pp 2-1. I’ve read a lot on here about the refs, and how it’s lopsided to favour the oilers, and yet the stats in the actual playoffs so far, don’t match up with this narrative. 5 on 5 hockey favours edm thus far and by a considerable margain. At some point the regular season stats lose their validity if they continually don’t match up with what’s happening on the ice in the current playoffs.

+24? are you just making up numbers and then telling us we are stupid because you made up numbers?? Thats what it looks like to me. Unless you can twist and turn your way into some logic behind that one.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Rising_Oil_Prices

Why is edm so much higher as a team in plus minus? Doesn’t plus minus only count when the teams are at even strength? Maybe I’m missing something then, 4 on 4 is still even strength yes?

Alright, I just thought about how I came up with my stat and there’s probably a flaw in my reasoning and I may have missed a few factors. Go on using the refs as your excuse. I’ll bow out of this.

You were making up numbers! Good for you, at least you tried.

[Rising_Oil_Prices]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

+24? are you just making up numbers and then telling us we are stupid because you made up numbers?? Thats what it looks like to me. Unless you can twist and turn your way into some logic behind that one.

No, I looked at the team stats. Oilers are +24 and flames are even when you add all the individual players +- but I see how there’s a flaw in that.. I wasn’t meaning to say you were stupid, I thought it was a stat worth discussing, but I was incorrect on my interpretation of the numbers. I do know that Edmonton’s 5 on 5 game has improved and I’m not sure how relevant the numbers are from Dec and Jan to the team in the playoffs today was my main point.

[AC]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

+24? are you just making up numbers and then telling us we are stupid because you made up numbers?? Thats what it looks like to me. Unless you can twist and turn your way into some logic behind that one.

lmfao, it looks like +24 is the combined plus/minus of the individual players...

McDavid is +12, making up half that total.

The team is actually:
5on5: 24 GF and 21 GA.
4on4: 2 GF and 1 GA.

[Rising_Oil_Prices]

Originally Posted by AC

lmfao, it looks like +24 is the combined plus/minus of the individual players...

McDavid is +12, making up half that total.

The team is actually +5 from a quick glance.

Pretty sure added up they’re +24 as a team. Flames are even. And yea McDavid is +12 he’s a pretty big part of the team.

[Rising_Oil_Prices]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

In the 2nd round

5 on 5 GF% Calgary 52.94 Edmonton 47.06

In the playoffs as a whole

5 on 5 GF% Calgary 54.29 Edmonton 53.33

Hey I don’t know how to access those kind of stats, I tried googling Corsi and about every other thing I could think of, but not very good at the interwebs… could you tell me what the even strength 5 on 5 and 4 on 4 stats look like? Thank you.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Rising_Oil_Prices

Pretty sure added up they’re +24 as a team. Flames are even. And yea McDavid is +12 he’s a pretty big part of the team.

As we have seen in years past, it takes more than McDavid to go far in the playoffs. You can't rely on one or 2 players to get you through the playoffs.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

All the fancy stats has the Flames losing this series. Going to be interesting how Sutter and the analytics set try and spin this.

What are you even talking about?

This series to date is what you'd expect.

Five on five for Calgary
CF% 62%
xGF% 63%
HD% 67%

When you look at "even" would include 4 on 4
CF% 61%
xGF% 60%
HD% 64%
Which brings Calgary down, Edmonton better 4 on 4

On the Powerplay
Cgy
xGF 2.6
GF 2.0
Edm
xGF 2.4
GF 1.0
Penalty kill has been quite good

Flames had their break downs for sure, and four on four is something they need to avoid, but the Flames aren't getting out played, especially five on five.

And that matches the eye test too.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Rising_Oil_Prices

Oilers are +24, in the playoffs so far, as a team, the flames are even. Please explain how the flames are the much superior team 5 on 5 and the oilers only score because of garbage penalties and their power play, in these playoffs? Also in this series, you’ve outscored the oilers on the pp 2-1. I’ve read a lot on here about the refs, and how it’s lopsided to favour the oilers, and yet the stats in the actual playoffs so far, don’t match up with this narrative. 5 on 5 hockey favours edm thus far and by a considerable margain. At some point the regular season stats lose their validity if they continually don’t match up with what’s happening on the ice in the current playoffs.

I think you're confusing results and actually driving play.

McDavid skill certainly ups the finish of actual plays into goals on a higher clip, especially the way he's playing.

But that doesn't mean the Oilers are carrying the play, and there are numerous stats that suggest they're not.

And +24 ? I see Edmonton +3 and Calgary +1 even strength in the playoffs.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by AC

lmfao, it looks like +24 is the combined plus/minus of the individual players...

McDavid is +12, making up half that total.

The team is actually:
5on5: 24 GF and 21 GA.
4on4: 2 GF and 1 GA.

Oiler fan not knowing what plus minus represents as a stat. That checks out.


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[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by Bingo

What are you even talking about?

This series to date is what you'd expect.

Five on five for Calgary
CF% 62%
xGF% 63%
HD% 67%

When you look at "even" would include 4 on 4
CF% 61%
xGF% 60%
HD% 64%
Which brings Calgary down, Edmonton better 4 on 4

On the Powerplay
Cgy
xGF 2.6
GF 2.0
Edm
xGF 2.4
GF 1.0
Penalty kill has been quite good

Flames had their break downs for sure, and four on four is something they need to avoid, but the Flames aren't getting out played, especially five on five.

And that matches the eye test too.

Everyone said prior to this series that the Flames need to stay out of the box. That message is being repeated still after two games and it will be repeated again and again until this series is over.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NegativeSpace]

It is interesting looking at the series reports on Natural Stat Trick.

Game 1 5 on 5 time on ice is 45:58.
Game 2 is 36:54.

This speaks to what Sutter was talking about there being too many penalties.

The Flames have been the better team 5 on 5 except for shooting percentage and save percentage. Edmonton is getting more saves and a high scoring percentage.

Stay out of the box and the Flames can win this series.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Rising_Oil_Prices

Pretty sure added up they’re +24 as a team. Flames are even. And yea McDavid is +12 he’s a pretty big part of the team.

Not only is the summation of individual +/- stats a gross misrepresentation of team +/-, but also the two teams faced vastly different opponents in the first round. The Oilers faced a young, inexperienced Kings team that was missing its top two right defensemen, including a perennial Norris candidate, and who were not projected to make the playoffs even before those losses, while the Flames faced an experienced Stars team with a goaltender who put on the performance of the century. If their opponents had been reversed, the Oilers wouldn’t even be in the second round.

[ricardodw]

Gaudreau 2 minutes Unsportsmanlike conduct? Was that an embellishment penalty or talking penalty?

I don't recall if getting knocked down while attempting to stay onside was a penalty?

How bad of a whining rep has Gaudreau developed? There was no embellishment on the play he got called on. This seems to be pay back for acting more seriously injured on previous incidents.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Gaudreau 2 minutes Unsportsmanlike conduct? Was that an embellishment penalty or talking penalty?

I don't recall if getting knocked down while attempting to stay onside was a penalty?

How bad of a whining rep has Gaudreau developed? There was no embellishment on the play he got called on. This seems to be pay back for acting more seriously injured on previous incidents.

You took a four month break to save up and say that?

Gaudreau has come a long way in not showboating officials, I'm sure his reputation is just fine.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Gaudreau 2 minutes Unsportsmanlike conduct? Was that an embellishment penalty or talking penalty?

I don't recall if getting knocked down while attempting to stay onside was a penalty?

How bad of a whining rep has Gaudreau developed? There was no embellishment on the play he got called on. This seems to be pay back for acting more seriously injured on previous incidents.

Look what the cat dragged in. Pathetic.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Gaudreau 2 minutes Unsportsmanlike conduct? Was that an embellishment penalty or talking penalty?

I don't recall if getting knocked down while attempting to stay onside was a penalty?

How bad of a whining rep has Gaudreau developed? There was no embellishment on the play he got called on. This seems to be pay back for acting more seriously injured on previous incidents.

I mean that was the most ridiculous of all the calls in game 2.

Johnny doesnt have the puck. Johnny is trying to slow up a bit to stay on side. Gets crosschecked directly from behind in the numbers. He cannot see the guy behind him.

Could have been called a crosscheck. Could have been called interference. To call it embellishment was a joke. What else was going to happen when you're slowing up and get plowed from behind

Just thinking about about that play and those calls triggers me to no end.

[Rising_Oil_Prices]

Originally Posted by Bingo

What are you even talking about?

This series to date is what you'd expect.

Five on five for Calgary
CF% 62%
xGF% 63%
HD% 67%

When you look at "even" would include 4 on 4
CF% 61%
xGF% 60%
HD% 64%
Which brings Calgary down, Edmonton better 4 on 4

On the Powerplay
Cgy
xGF 2.6
GF 2.0
Edm
xGF 2.4
GF 1.0
Penalty kill has been quite good

Flames had their break downs for sure, and four on four is something they need to avoid, but the Flames aren't getting out played, especially five on five.

And that matches the eye test too.

I concede, you were right here. I was mistaken, rather badly. I never claim to be a stats guy… you can see why. But to a player especially the top four on each team, the oilers are having stronger plus minus statistics. I guess I see things from watching this team for 40 years.. it’s not the same oilers team as in the past. Whether the kings were a formidable opponent or not, the oilers in the past lose game 6 or 7. They didn’t this time… and it’s realistically because McDavid has slowly changed the culture. I am not saying the oilers are amazing, but they are competitive and underrated by some. Holland made good changes in the offseason and at the midway point. It’s not tippet’s team anymore. He was a decent coach but I think he lost the room. As always, I could eat my words if they lose in five to the flames but hey that’s part of sports. And even if they do, do that, I would still consider this a good season considering the slump they had 1/3 into the season. Just my thoughts, I apologize if I came off cocky or arrogant, that wasn’t my intention. Just wanted to express my opinion about the growth of this team, as I see it anyways.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Rising_Oil_Prices

Hey I don’t know how to access those kind of stats, I tried googling Corsi and about every other thing I could think of, but not very good at the interwebs… could you tell me what the even strength 5 on 5 and 4 on 4 stats look like? Thank you.

http://www.naturalstattrick.com/teamtable.php