Calgarypuck Prospect Ranking 2018 - Round 3

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Kinda surprised that Dube is going this high. I view him and Klimchuk very similarly.

Klimchuk has three AHL seasons under his belt. If Dube is similar to him now he is most certainly a better prospect isn’t he?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

This debate about Klimchuk is interesting. I know they play different positions but Klimchuk (40 pts) and Foo (39 pts) had similar numbers last season. To put that in perspective Foo (24) is a year older than Klimchuk (23). Again, from a statistical standpoint Klimchuk was a very disciplined player he only had 24 PIM. To put that in perspective Foo had 41 PIM. An interesting factor is penalty killing, which is why I asked. If Klimchuk does kill penalties, than there is an argument to be made that Klimchuk could find a role in the bottom six. While I doubt that Klimchuk will ever become an impact NHLer, stating that he is "a bust" is not a given fact. Of course all of this is speculation. But hey. Its summer so why not shoot the breeze.

Prior to the off season acquisitions Foo's RH shot gave him a pretty big edge. I think the current attraction is that, while he and Klimchuk have really similar totals, Foo really came on in the second half (after a dismal first 19 games), so his trajectory is more attractive and recent. And he was the last callup in garbage time for the Flames (and did well). Klimchuk only got 1 game in the NHL this year. So I guess if you go by who the Flames wanted to see, Foo has the edge.

I'm betting that, during the season each of Foo, Mangiapane and Dube will be given some audition time. None of them are waiver eligible I think.

I guess we can't write off Shinkaruk. He had only 2 less goals than Klimchuk and 7 less points than Foo. However, he was a scratch in Stockton's PO race. Not a good sign.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Back in the day I used to force each of you to give me a potential and a likelihood value and then they were combined.

2004 Prospects

You want to see thin? Check out the 2004 mess

The only prospect from the summer of 2004 who is still with the team didn't even make the list.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Prior to the off season acquisitions Foo's RH shot gave him a pretty big edge. I think the current attraction is that, while he and Klimchuk have really similar totals, Foo really came on in the second half (after a dismal first 19 games), so his trajectory is more attractive and recent. And he was the last callup in garbage time for the Flames (and did well). Klimchuk only got 1 game in the NHL this year. So I guess if you go by who the Flames wanted to see, Foo has the edge.

I'm betting that, during the season each of Foo, Mangiapane and Dube will be given some audition time. None of them are waiver eligible I think.

I guess we can't write off Shinkaruk. He had only 2 less goals than Klimchuk and 7 less points than Foo. However, he was a scratch in Stockton's PO race. Not a good sign.

My comparison was not perfect, I just wanted to make a case about discounting the potential of prospects.
I agree the RHS factor is important. Another difference is that Foo is a scoring winger. He will make the Flames only by scoring. Klimchuk, however, could slot into the role of a two way winger. Arguably there is more room for that kind of a call up. Now, does that make it so that Klimchuk has more better potential than Foo? No. But I do believe that there is a legitimate argument to be made for putting Klimchuk in the conversation about which players will be competing for a spot out of camp.

Imo, Mangiapane, Dube, Foo, Lazar, Hathaway and Klimchuk will all be fighting for one or two spots. That spots are likely on the fourth line left wing / press box. It should be a fun competition to track all the way from this poll to opening night.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Back in the day I used to force each of you to give me a potential and a likelihood value and then they were combined.

2004 Prospects

You want to see thin? Check out the 2004 mess

Good God that is a big pile of crap.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

FDW - I respect your opinion and thank you for your argument, although I feel Klimchuk is far more capable defensively. I really love prospects who can pull their weight at both ends of the ice and, in addition, because I'm voting based upon NHL-readiness, my belief that Klimchuk is the Flames' most seasoned prospect makes me put him #1 on my list. I simply see him as the prospect most able to step right into the Flames' lineup next year in ANY situation and have success.

I just don't really understand your approach. When ranking prospects I don't see why NHL readiness is the most important factor. It would be silly to have ranked Kulak over Valimaki last year in the poll based on NHL readiness since Valimaki is a much superior prospect. And yet if you emphasize only NHL readiness you get wacky results like that. Like getting a ricardoDW voting for Hathaway ahead of everyone else. Your voting of Klimchuk this year kind of resembles his Hathaway #1 last year to me to a slightly lesser extent. I dunno I just don't understand this method of prioritizing NHL readiness above all else. Like no publications do their rankings like that. Are people just trying to be different? Or do they misunderstand the exercise into thinking its supposed to be the most NHL ready? Pretty sure this was started years ago as a blend of NHL upside and NHL readiness. Not NHL readiness above all else. If anything slanting it more towards NHL upside makes more sense to me. I just don't see how Klimchuk is ever considered our top prospect at the moment. Valimaki is a clearcut #1 to me this year and I have trouble finding any strong arguments for anybody else. It's very debatable from #2 on IMO and strong arguments can be made for a variety of players.

But do whatever you want of course. Single votes mean nothing in an exercise this like with how many voters we have. It's just very curious and strange to have Klimchuk #1 this year IMO. He won't make my top 5. I do think some people underrate him. I do think he has the potential to play some NHL games this year. But yeah none of that adds up to him being our best prospect.

Who's the prospect other teams should want the most off the Flames? That's the question we should be answering in a poll like this IMO. Klimchuk is not the prospect other teams would covet the most. He's not our top prospect. We're trying to rank their worth, their value. Answering who is most NHL ready is a different set of polls entirely.

[savardandjokinen]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Back in the day I used to force each of you to give me a potential and a likelihood value and then they were combined.

2004 Prospects

You want to see thin? Check out the 2004 mess

Wow, Gio not on the list, and only 2 guys still under NHL contract. Phaneuf and McElhinney. Nystrom, Boyd and Prust are the other relevant guys, who were nothing but bottom 6ers

[Calgary4LIfe]

Still voted for Kylington as I think he has the highest ceiling + likelihood of making it.


I really like Dube, but I see him as a 3rd line player as part of a shut-down line, but able to generate some offence. Important, definitely, but still more of a depth player. Frolik is the ballpark of where I see Dube ending up as. I think Mangiapane has a bit higher of a ceiling there.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Answering who is most NHL ready is a different set of polls entirely.

Well, no it's not. Bingo says so in the OP. Right now, when choosing the 2018-19 Flames, I want Klimchuk on that roster over anyone else. He's better and more consistent and younger than Foo, more complete than Mangiapane, more seasoned and better defensively than Dube.

He, Valimaki, and Andersson form my top-3 quite easily. I'd love to see all three in the NHL this year. But right now, for my money, Klimchuk will make the biggest difference in the NHL. He'll carve out a long career. He's among Stockton's most consistent and best scorers while being their best defensive forward and a top-2 defensive player overall on the team. I love Dillon Dube but he hasn't proven any of that yet. So based on my criteria, it's Klimchuk, period.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by savardandjokinen

Wow, Gio not on the list, and only 2 guys still under NHL contract. Phaneuf and McElhinney. Nystrom, Boyd and Prust are the other relevant guys, who were nothing but bottom 6ers

Pretty sure Giordano was a camp invite after this prospect round came out.

[flamesrule14]

Looks like I’m in the minority of this one. Went with Mangiapane over Dube. Just think he has a bit more offensive potential and he’s had two real good AHL seasons.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

So based on my criteria, it's Klimchuk, period.

I guess that makes sense given Bingo's wording. I wish Bingo hadn't worded it the way he did, kind of encourages people to vote on completely different questions. If we could agree on the criteria that would be useful IMO.

The criteria or question IMO should be, "Who will be the best NHLer out of our remaining prospect pool?" Klimchuk will most likely not be the best NHLer out of our current prospect pool. He has a chance but its pretty dang small IMO. I'd say a betting man would have bet on Valimaki to be the best NHLer out of our current bunch. Then at #2 it starts to get pretty tricky.

Maybe next year we can vote on a question to get everyone answering the same question instead of 95% answering one question while a few others answer another.
"Who will be the best NHLer out of the prospects listed?" would be my suggestion. I think it captures the spirit of the poll and how most prospect lists are approached.
OR
"Who is the most valuable prospect out of the prospects listed?" is another way of thinking about it but I don't think its as clear and direct as the first suggestion

IMO who is the most NHL ready is a completely different question than what most of us are talking about. My list for most NHL ready or chance for a big role this year is completely different than how I am voting in this exercise.

We should all be answering the same question at least.

[btimbit]

Looks like I need to look into Dube more. I had him after Parsons Gillies Kylignton and Mangiapane personally but am definitely willing to chalk they up to not knowing much about him

[Da_Chief]

Whoever is voting for Klimchuk at this stage needs to slap themselves and wake up. The guy is an AHLer right now and would be behind Foo, Mangiapane, Hathaway even Lomberg on the next call up list based on last years play. That's not even counting fresh guys coming in like Dube and Ehliz.

And to vote him 1st or 2nd or 3rd on top prospects list is simply trolling. Wake up.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Whoever is voting for Klimchuk at this stage needs to slap themselves and wake up. The guy is an AHLer right now and would be behind Foo, Mangiapane, Hathaway even Lomberg on the next call up list based on last years play. That's not even counting fresh guys coming in like Dube and Ehliz.

And to vote him 1st or 2nd or 3rd on top prospects list is simply trolling. Wake up.

Settle down ricardo.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Whoever is voting for Klimchuk at this stage needs to slap themselves and wake up. The guy is an AHLer right now and would be behind Foo, Mangiapane, Hathaway even Lomberg on the next call up list based on last years play. That's not even counting fresh guys coming in like Dube and Ehliz.

And to vote him 1st or 2nd or 3rd on top prospects list is simply trolling. Wake up.

Lol. I can give you compelling arguments for why Klimchuk had a better season last year than literally everyone you mentioned with the possible exception of Mangiapane, and even then, I still think Klimchuk is better all-around.

Seriously, Yasin Ehliz? That's ridiculous. You do know we're talking about Klimchuk, a former first-rounder who finished second on Stockton in scoring last year while being the team's best penalty-killer and defensive forward? This isn't Shinkaruk we're talking about.

[dustygoon]

getting hard already....i went with player i thought would fetch the most in a trade.

Parsons.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Lol. I can give you compelling arguments for why Klimchuk had a better season last year than literally everyone you mentioned with the possible exception of Mangiapane, and even then, I still think Klimchuk is better all-around.

Seriously, Yasin Ehliz? That's ridiculous. You do know we're talking about Klimchuk, a former first-rounder who finished second on Stockton in scoring last year while being the team's best penalty-killer and defensive forward? This isn't Shinkaruk we're talking about.

Yes I know who Klimchuk is, former first rounder from 5 thats right 5 years ago who has played 1 nhl game so far and somehow now he's figured it out. Quit trolling young blood.

[doctajones428]

So putting up less points in the the AHL and playing less NHL games makes you the better prospect.

Hmm.

[TheScorpion]

Mark Jankowski had one NHL game played after 5 years and Klimchuk just had just about as good a season as his D+5 year, I'd argue.

Also, I'm not trolling. I'm disagreeing. Learn the difference. Trolls' arguments lack substance. I have provided reasons many, many times that you all are choosing to ignore in favour of 'he's old'.