[Trade] CHI trades Hossa's contract+Hinostroza+Oesterle for Kruger+Entwistle+Maletta+Campbell

[Serapth]

Originally Posted by Fire

A lot of guys I've never heard of. Who won the trade?

Imagine if we traded Brouwer and um... some spare bits for... some different spare bits? Who’d win that trade...


Guess that depends on what you thought of Brouwers contracts. This is a salary dump in exchange for ...stuff?

[Erick Estrada]

I hate that a team has to operate like this. I get they are paying $3 million in real money to buy $15 million cap space but why not use that $5 million to try and get a player in free agency to make your team better on the ice. I also hate that big market US teams continue to get convenient circumstances to get out of cap issues.

[calgarywinning]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I hate that a team has to operate like this. I get they are paying $3 million in real money to buy $15 million cap space but why not use that $5 million to try and get a player in free agency to make your team better on the ice. I also hate that big market US teams continue to get convenient circumstances to get out of cap issues.

I totally get this. From the point of view of the people making the deals it's completely legitimate and within the rules, even though it comes across as unfair and circumventing.

However, Arizona has been at this now for a second time. I can't think the NHL would want these teams unloading their bad contracts on the junkyard teams of the league.

Could it be considered tanking, as opposed to using the money to bolster the team to win.

Also, we are always like this team is hooped when they have to sign this or that. A lot of these big market teams have been able to unload these contracts. I'm really grateful Edmonton wasn't able to unload Lucic on Arizona.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I also hate that big market US teams continue to get convenient circumstances to get out of cap issues.

Show me where any other team has been refused cap relief in similar circumstances, or drop the conspiracy theory.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by KPat99

Arizona didn't need this contract to reach the floor. Chayka is simply using an asset (cap space) he has used before to gain some assets and improve his team. I think any team that is near the bottom of the league and has space should be making moves like this. Especially on mostly insured contracts where it has little cash impact on you.

If Arizona wasn't paying Bolland or the newly aquired Hossa contract they would be below the salary cap floor or floating right near it.

They have traded for "insured" contracts a few times before so it's not like this is a new thing for them..

I'm just saying we have some weak NHL franchises and even though, as another poster mentioned, network deals drive a lot of the business I still feel it is a shame that the league, I love so dearly, is still somewhat broken.

[calgarywinning]

Unloading contracts on deficient teams doesn't bolster the weaker teams which is why the cap space is there. It's basically like using the cap floor teams to allow big market teams to continue to dominate or get out of bad contracts.

It's like saying if your LA, CHI you get an extra 8 million. I think it's a factor for all of us to think about in our market as we haven't really dumped any bad contracts like this. The spread evaluates to inequality.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by calgarywinning

Unloading contracts on deficient teams doesn't bolster the weaker teams which is why the cap space is there. It's basically like using the cap floor teams to allow big market teams to continue to dominate or get out of bad contracts.

It's like saying if your LA, CHI you get an extra 8 million. I think it's a factor for all of us to think about in our market as we haven't really dumped any bad contracts like this. The spread evaluates to inequality.

Arizona didn’t have to accept it. All 30 other GMs didn’t have to do Chicago a solid but AZ did.

[calgarywinning]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Arizona didn’t have to accept it. All 30 other GMs didn’t have to do Chicago a solid but AZ did.

HUH? All thirty teams couldn't do this. Cap floor teams could?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Arizona continuing to make moves like this to skirt the salary cap floor, their issues with arenas and developing a devoted fan base as well as teams like Florida letting good players go to Vegas because they are too cheap and also have issues with attracting enough fans are things that kinda frustrate me about the NHL expansion.

Seattle and Vegas should have teams but they should have just been relocated out of those two sad organizations.

Why is there 2 teams in Florida? Come on!

Carolina is on the bubble for me as well but I hold them in a slightly higher regard.

Florida let the players go for cap reasons, yes. There is an unofficial internal cap of $75 million, which is more than enough to field a competitive team. As the league salary cap rises, you are going to see more and more teams having internal caps so that they aren't bleeding money.

But I don't see the comparison to Arizona. For years, Arizona has struggled to stay above the cap floor and aren't doing much to make a competitive team. Florida has had some major missteps in management, which has soured the fans, but they are spending and working hard on building a strong team. It just hasn't worked out quite yet other than their strong season a couple years ago. Whereas Tampa has had sustained success for years, and the fans have showed up.

American markets in general are going to be more fickle than Canadian ones, but if you win consistently, the fans will come. The Coyotes should be focused on building a good team that wins year after year, and then the attendance will sort itself out.

But look at the graph in this link and tell me something. Is it better to have another Winnipeg-like franchise who is limited by a small building and small population or is it better to go after markets that are flush with populations and money to maintain a viable franchise in the area? This is the thinking behind the Vegas and Seattle expansions, and why Quebec isn't anywhere on the radar.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/attendance

Winnipeg attendance: 15321

Florida attendance: 13851

They aren't that far apart at a difference of 1470 fans on average, and that's because the Panthers were bad for the first half of the year. The income is probably favorable to Florida once you convert those attendance figures into American dollars. In 2015/16 during their 100+ point season, the Panthers attendance was 15384, ahead of the Jets, which was also skewed due to fans not showing up for the first part of the season. The building was full throughout the last 1/2 to 1/3 of the season. That's what happens in America; if you don't win, the fans don't show up.

This doesn't take into account broadcasting deals or the arena deal that gives the Panthers extra income from non-sporting events and low rent/major tax breaks.

At the end of the day, this is all about economics, and South Florida is still a perfectly viable market, even after so many years of poor results. I'd be far more concerned about what's happening in Arizona, Carolina or even Long Island before I was concerned about Florida.

[kyuss275]

I'm I the only one that felt Arizona should have gotten a way better prospect or a 1st round pick instead of a 3rd round pick? This helps Chicago out for 3 years. Not a lot of teams could take this on considering some use all the cap money and some have internal caps.

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I'm I the only one that felt Arizona should have gotten a way better prospect or a 1st round pick instead of a 3rd round pick? This helps Chicago out for 3 years. Not a lot of teams could take this on considering some use all the cap money and some have internal caps.

This is exactly what I was thinking, it shouldn't be this easy to dumb contracts like this. I understand that Arizona is trying to reach the floor but it's not like Chicago has lots of options here, a 1st rd pick should be minimum here.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Florida let the players go for cap reasons, yes. There is an unofficial internal cap of $75 million, which is more than enough to field a competitive team. As the league salary cap rises, you are going to see more and more teams having internal caps so that they aren't bleeding money.

But I don't see the comparison to Arizona. For years, Arizona has struggled to stay above the cap floor and aren't doing much to make a competitive team. Florida has had some major missteps in management, which has soured the fans, but they are spending and working hard on building a strong team. It just hasn't worked out quite yet other than their strong season a couple years ago. Whereas Tampa has had sustained success for years, and the fans have showed up.

American markets in general are going to be more fickle than Canadian ones, but if you win consistently, the fans will come. The Coyotes should be focused on building a good team that wins year after year, and then the attendance will sort itself out.

But look at the graph in this link and tell me something. Is it better to have another Winnipeg-like franchise who is limited by a small building and small population or is it better to go after markets that are flush with populations and money to maintain a viable franchise in the area? This is the thinking behind the Vegas and Seattle expansions, and why Quebec isn't anywhere on the radar.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/attendance

Winnipeg attendance: 15321

Florida attendance: 13851

They aren't that far apart at a difference of 1470 fans on average, and that's because the Panthers were bad for the first half of the year. The income is probably favorable to Florida once you convert those attendance figures into American dollars. In 2015/16 during their 100+ point season, the Panthers attendance was 15384, ahead of the Jets, which was also skewed due to fans not showing up for the first part of the season. The building was full throughout the last 1/2 to 1/3 of the season. That's what happens in America; if you don't win, the fans don't show up.

This doesn't take into account broadcasting deals or the arena deal that gives the Panthers extra income from non-sporting events and low rent/major tax breaks.

At the end of the day, this is all about economics, and South Florida is still a perfectly viable market, even after so many years of poor results. I'd be far more concerned about what's happening in Arizona, Carolina or even Long Island before I was concerned about Florida.

Your argument is sound and I can't disagree that Carolina and NYI are a bit of a joke more so than Florida..

I may just still be frustrated by the fact Florida gave Vegas 2/3's of their top line and head coach which helped Vegas storm to the cup final. Something I personally don't think reflects well on the league, no matter what Bettman says.

A first year expansion team winning/almost winning the cup to me says Mickey Mouse league. I can brush it off cause they lost and after the tragedy in Vegas I can get behind the run to a certain extent. But still feel the rules should be revisited for the next expansion.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Your argument is sound and I can't disagree that Carolina and NYI are a bit of a joke more so than Florida..

I may just still be frustrated by the fact Florida gave Vegas 2/3's of their top line and head coach which helped Vegas storm to the cup final. Something I personally don't think reflects well on the league, no matter what Bettman says.

A first year expansion team winning/almost winning the cup to me says Mickey Mouse league. I can brush it off cause they lost and after the tragedy in Vegas I can get behind the run to a certain extent. But still feel the rules should be revisited for the next expansion.

You know what would be Mickey Mouse? Charging a team a $500,000,000 expansion fee and giving them scraps for players. Good luck building a fan base.

The way they did it is exactly how they’ll do it with Seattle. And they should.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

You know what would be Mickey Mouse? Charging a team a $500,000,000 expansion fee and giving them scraps for players. Good luck building a fan base.

The way they did it is exactly how they’ll do it with Seattle. And they should.

So teams should come into the league win their division, dominate in their conference in the playoffs and make it to the cup final in their inaugural season? Meanwhile organizations who have been toiling for years to build a winner just get to hand over a player that they don't want to - that or overpay the expansion team not to and further advance the organization to be a top team?

I can see what you mean about it being costly and all but I feel the team shouldn't be able to jump in and dominate the league right off the bat.

I wouldn't have been mad for the players winning if Vegas won. I would have been mad because the fans don't deserve it.

You should have to go through some tough times, just like every other organization in this league has, before you can build a winner.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

So teams should come into the league win their division, dominate in their conference in the playoffs and make it to the cup final in their inaugural season? Meanwhile organizations who have been toiling for years to build a winner just get to hand over a player that they don't want to - that or overpay the expansion team not to and further advance the organization to be a top team?

I can see what you mean about it being costly and all but I feel the team shouldn't be able to jump in and dominate the league right off the bat.

I wouldn't have been mad for the players winning if Vegas won. I would have been mad because the fans don't deserve it.

You should have to go through some tough times, just like every other organization in this league has, before you can build a winner.

Everything went right for them. I don’t see that happening the same way every time. But they should be given a competitive team.

The league is very even these days, the smallest things can make or break your season. It’s not an exact science.

As for “the fans don’t deserve it”.... sorry but this just sounds petty.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Everything went right for them. I don’t see that happening the same way every time. But they should be given a competitive team.

The league is very even these days, the smallest things can make or break your season. It’s not an exact science.

As for “the fans don’t deserve it”.... sorry but this just sounds petty.

You had me agreeing with you until the last sentence.. It may come across as petty but I stand by it because a fanbase shouldn't be able to enjoy winning it all in the first year their team exists.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

You had me agreeing with you until the last sentence.. It may come across as petty but I stand by it because a fanbase shouldn't be able to enjoy winning it all in the first year their team exists.

They didn’t.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Florida let the players go for cap reasons, yes. There is an unofficial internal cap of $75 million, which is more than enough to field a competitive team. As the league salary cap rises, you are going to see more and more teams having internal caps so that they aren't bleeding money.

But I don't see the comparison to Arizona. For years, Arizona has struggled to stay above the cap floor and aren't doing much to make a competitive team. Florida has had some major missteps in management, which has soured the fans, but they are spending and working hard on building a strong team. It just hasn't worked out quite yet other than their strong season a couple years ago. Whereas Tampa has had sustained success for years, and the fans have showed up.

American markets in general are going to be more fickle than Canadian ones, but if you win consistently, the fans will come. The Coyotes should be focused on building a good team that wins year after year, and then the attendance will sort itself out.

But look at the graph in this link and tell me something. Is it better to have another Winnipeg-like franchise who is limited by a small building and small population or is it better to go after markets that are flush with populations and money to maintain a viable franchise in the area? This is the thinking behind the Vegas and Seattle expansions, and why Quebec isn't anywhere on the radar.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/attendance

Winnipeg attendance: 15321

Florida attendance: 13851

They aren't that far apart at a difference of 1470 fans on average, and that's because the Panthers were bad for the first half of the year. The income is probably favorable to Florida once you convert those attendance figures into American dollars. In 2015/16 during their 100+ point season, the Panthers attendance was 15384, ahead of the Jets, which was also skewed due to fans not showing up for the first part of the season. The building was full throughout the last 1/2 to 1/3 of the season. That's what happens in America; if you don't win, the fans don't show up.

This doesn't take into account broadcasting deals or the arena deal that gives the Panthers extra income from non-sporting events and low rent/major tax breaks.

At the end of the day, this is all about economics, and South Florida is still a perfectly viable market, even after so many years of poor results. I'd be far more concerned about what's happening in Arizona, Carolina or even Long Island before I was concerned about Florida.

Your argument that the difference between Florida and Winnipeg is relatively small does hold water. However, your financial assertions are incorrect. I would also suggest that indirect revenue is higher in Winnipeg.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ams-in-2010/#0

Winnipeg +$10M
Florida -$11M

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

They didn’t.

Thank f@*# for that!

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I'm I the only one that felt Arizona should have gotten a way better prospect or a 1st round pick instead of a 3rd round pick? This helps Chicago out for 3 years. Not a lot of teams could take this on considering some use all the cap money and some have internal caps.

Remember that with Hossa on LTIR, it doesn't affect Chicago's cap situation in the same way than if he was healthy and just playing poorly. Therefore, the cost of dumping the contract was actually quite minimal.