#Retire14 - Page 4 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

undercoverbrother · 07-10-2018, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

- On the other hand, no one has worn 14 since Theo. Is that just coincidence or is there some sort of policy in place?
- You've got a guy like Nieuwy who HAS been honored yet his number has been worn.

.

Agreed, I think (but don't know) that players must be aware of the number they decide to wear at an organization. No?

drewtastic · 07-10-2018, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissentowner

So if we discount them all then the mans number should clearly be in the rafters.

The problem there, as Textcritic alludes to (and I don’t want to put words in your mouth TC, so correct me if I misspeak here) is that the fans aren’t determining the jersey retirement—the Flames are.

If Theo has rubbed the decision makers the wrong way and/or has been deemed as having disparaged the organization (as he seems to have done on several occasions), this could very well be preventing the “powers that be” from retiring the jersey, whether we think this should be considered criteria or not.

The reason I posted the audio initially was because Boomer outlining Theo’s on-ice accomplishments as a Flame really hit home with me, particularly his playoff output with the Flames. In my opinion, he really was an amazing producer, especially on a team populated by a rotating cast of sidekicks, for his entire tenure here.

If it were up to me, his on-ice performance as a Flame would be the only thing that matters, but I also understand how “behind the scenes” stuff can affect these things, especially for a Flames franchise that prides itself on its community image and involvement.

I do hold out hope that he does get this recognition eventually, though, because he was “the guy” during my formative years as a Flames fan. He really was the face of the franchise for a long time, and the lone ray of hope on a miserably underachieving, and/or simply miserable team, post 1989.

CorsiHockeyLeague · 07-10-2018, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DownhillGoat

What did I miss that it's about to be 3? I thought they were only doing the FAF bs? (note - I haven't heard the sound bite in the OP yet).

Have to think 12 goes up next season, right?

playmaker · 07-10-2018, 01:34 PM

#Retire12and14together

DownhillGoat · 07-10-2018, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Have to think 12 goes up next season, right?

Not if they're still committed to the FAF ceremony and not retiring jerseys anymore.

tvp2003 · 07-10-2018, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I find the whole Theo thing to be hard to understand
- On one hand the organization has shown no intent to honor Theo
- On the other hand, no one has worn 14 since Theo. Is that just coincidence or is there some sort of policy in place?
- You've got a guy like Nieuwy who HAS been honored yet his number has been worn.

So a lot of confusing messages

For what its worth I think overall the Flames do a horrible job of the stuff
- The entire forever a flame program is lame. Just retire the numbers or don't. Half steps are annoying
- The banners are poorly designed and inconsistent. The visual of the rows of banners in the dome don't look nearly as good as they should. Take them all down, and simplify the design and put up ones that look the same for pete's sake.

Honor the on-ice achievements by keeping #14 out of circulation. Won't be worn by another Flame again.

At the same time, they aren't prepared to devote a FAF/number retirement ceremony to Theo, likely due to the off-ice stuff.

I do agree that the FAF is painful -- would have been better just to do a ring of honor instead of raising FAF banners next to 9 and 30.

P.S. The original Lanny retirement banner was perfect. Then they screwed it up with Vernie's and ended up quietly changing both to keep some sort of consistency.

CorsiHockeyLeague · 07-10-2018, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DownhillGoat

Not if they're still committed to the FAF ceremony and not retiring jerseys anymore.

Something tells me that they make an exception for the best player in team history. It would be absurd if they didn't retire his number.

DownhillGoat · 07-10-2018, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Something tells me that they make an exception for the best player in team history. It would be absurd if they didn't retire his number.

Well I've seen nothing out of the org that would make me think they would make an exception.

It's not like they wouldn't have been expecting to honor his number when they came up with the hair-brained idea of FAF in the first place.

Zarley · 07-10-2018, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

For what its worth I think overall the Flames do a horrible job of the stuff
- The entire forever a flame program is lame. Just retire the numbers or don't. Half steps are annoying
- The banners are poorly designed and inconsistent. The visual of the rows of banners in the dome don't look nearly as good as they should. Take them all down, and simplify the design and put up ones that look the same for pete's sake.

The organization is pretty atrocious at branding in general. Between this lack of capitalizing on the legacy and history of the team, to the awful jerseys that we've been stuck with for a decade, to the lack of well designed merchandise and apparel. Say what you want about the Leafs and Habs, but do an excellent job of celebrating their history and integrating that into their brand.

Flames Fan, Ph.D. · 07-10-2018, 03:06 PM

Arguably he was the most exciting shift-by-shift player in Flames history and likely the only reason a good slice of Flames fans ever cared about the team. His point totals are phenomenal. He played hard for the team and cried on his way out.

I also find it a little strange that a player like MacInnis gets a pass from this crowd when he rather clearly identifies more as a Blue. Sign me up for the player that cares passionately about the Flames, even if it means criticizing the team today.

As for his off-ice issues: please. A vulnerable youngster and man who primarily hurt no one but himself, persevered and largely figured it out. His actions were never an indictment of the Flames, and for people to lose sight of that is, frankly, a little selfish and misguided.

Strange Brew · 07-10-2018, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I am quoting this post because I think this probably encapsulates best why Fleury's relationship with the Flames remains strained. At this point, it is less to do about his career achievements and his significance for the franchise during a period of dire recollection, and it is more about his own personal decorum and the value of his relationships with the gatekeepers.

Rightly or wrongly, propriety matters in these situations, and there is a considerable amount of noise about Fleury's demeanour and interactions when out of the public eye to suggest that he may not be endearing himself to the right people and under the best circumstances. I don't have a problem with that. Jersey retirement is an ultra selective honour that extends well beyond on-ice accomplishments.

Well people who want to see Fleury recognized are saying that is exactly what is wrong about the process I get that the customers don't always mean much in pro sports, but if this is what's important to ownership, then perhaps this type of recognition should just happen behind closed doors. Since it doesn't, then not hard to understand why fans are wondering why their memories aren't being recognized IMO.

The fact that Fleury's number is not being used suggests the organization is waiting for something to happen before honoring him.

Strange Brew · 07-10-2018, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I find the whole Theo thing to be hard to understand
- On one hand the organization has shown no intent to honor Theo
- On the other hand, no one has worn 14 since Theo. Is that just coincidence or is there some sort of policy in place?
- You've got a guy like Nieuwy who HAS been honored yet his number has been worn.

So a lot of confusing messages

For what its worth I think overall the Flames do a horrible job of the stuff
- The entire forever a flame program is lame. Just retire the numbers or don't. Half steps are annoying
- The banners are poorly designed and inconsistent. The visual of the rows of banners in the dome don't look nearly as good as they should. Take them all down, and simplify the design and put up ones that look the same for pete's sake.

I live in a city with several pro sports team and the Flames just strike me as being not that fan friendly or maybe just simply under invested in the marketing/PR side of the house. The in game entertainment is pretty tired too. The sweaters...

Is that par for Canadian NHL teams?

420since1974 · 07-10-2018, 03:56 PM

I'm on the fence about Fleury.

I do feel that Al MacInnis should have his #2 jersey retired.
He is my all time favourite Calgary Flame.

Personally, I'm just not a fan of the "Forever a Flame" promotion.

SuperMatt18 · 07-10-2018, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 420since1974

I'm on the fence about Fleury.

I do feel that Al MacInnis should have his #2 jersey retired.
He is my all time favourite Calgary Flame.

Personally, I'm just not a fan of the "Forever a Flame" promotion.

I don't care about "Forever A Flame" vs Jersey Retirement but I just want some damn consistency.

If you want to have this "Forever A Flame" thing then they should go back and change the Vernon & Lanny banners to match that.

Then if nobody ever wears 30 & 9 again then that's fine still - just call however you honor all past Flames "Forever A Flame" (Nobody is ever going to wear 12 or 14 again even if the numbers aren't retired officially).

But if you are going to retire numbers then go back and do the same for MacInnis, and Niewy.

Just be consistent.

CSharp · 07-10-2018, 04:22 PM

Feed in the career stats for Fleury into a computer comparing all other NHL'ers that are in the HHOF. A computer will say he is a HHOF'er without a doubt - no BS, no politics, no feelings. It's an object decision. The problem with the NHL is that it took them until this year to put Willie O'Ree into the HHOF - what a shame! The Flames should put the feelings aside and make that objective decision and put #14 on the rafters. Same with the NHL on putting Fleury into the HHOF. Right now, it's just all BS and politics.

Teroy · 07-10-2018, 05:21 PM

Never did agree with the Vernon or MacInnis recognition. MacInnis was a lousy defenceman and Vernon only got it because he was a hometown boy. Nilsson was as important as both of them. McDonald was deserving, Kiprusoff and Iginla probably but Fleury; I find it hard to believe we would honour someone with so many blemishes regardless of how good a player he was. If the NHL continues with this ridiculous policy we'll eventually run out of numbers.

Heavy Jack · 07-10-2018, 07:09 PM

The number is never worn; it’s dumb not to display it. Honestly let bygones be bygones at this point I mean the Flames did kinda kick dirt in his face at the end when he honestly should have been given one more season after a stellar pre season; it would have been the right thing to do and I think there was some bitterness there on both sides no doubt but let’s not deny just how amazing Fleury the player was for this team and the city. I think with the news of him wanting to confront graham is just signs that he truly wants to heal and move on and why not give him a tribute that would honour not the foulness that he carried with him inspite of all the internal pain and grief but he sheer determination that it took him to play at that elite level with so many inner demons and pain weighing down on his highly undersized shoulders at the time.

Come on CSEC; just get it done already I think it would help Fleury turn into an
ambassador of the team and city that he should proudly be.

Heavy Jack · 07-10-2018, 07:23 PM

MacInnis was a lousy Defenseman??

1274 points... 1416 games...

213 of his 340 goals with Calgary

609 of his 934 assist with Calgary

A 100+ point season as a Dman

+242 for Calgary +373 alltime...

1 minus season (his 23rd... -1)

1 Conn Smythe
1 James Norris (never winning one with the flames somehow)

Yep... lousy...

jlh2640 · 07-10-2018, 07:24 PM

It is time to retire 14 !

Flash Walken · 07-10-2018, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I live in a city with several pro sports team and the Flames just strike me as being not that fan friendly or maybe just simply under invested in the marketing/PR side of the house. The in game entertainment is pretty tired too. The sweaters...

Is that par for Canadian NHL teams?

The flames as an organization run as pretty much a skeleton crew.