Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Check the standings. 2 points out of first in the division. And the team is playing well even in losses. The gambles he made on this season are working, except for Neal and, to a degree, Ryan.

Smith was a last year signing, not a hard gamble on this specific season. Frankly, I think he thought Gillies would take a huge step last year.

I still think Neal will be fine in the long run. and Ryan doesn't really matter honestly.

The biggest gamble was on a 35 year old goalie last year and thinking that was a plan that would work until Gilles could start.

Now we go back to why hasn't Gilles panned out to date. To me that could be on the player (and it is to a large extent) but you can't move the player as easily as you can get a new goalie coach, and development team before you also ruin parsons.

At this point it feels like if a flames goalie develops into a starter it will be in spite of the flames development system and coaching and not because of it.


Im not saying I think Tre should be fired, because I fall into the group who has lived through all the terrible GMs (more or less) since Fletcher and Tre is probably at the top of that list in terms of competence and we'd be foolish to fire him I think.

I think they need to seriously consider a full rebuild of their development system and find something that can hopefully salvage gilles and/or parsons

[Bingo]

We really need to get a button that's the opposite of THANKS

[Stay Golden]

The goalie situation has not been resolved long term or even short term under Treliving.
Let's put it this way he has a lot of strengths as a GM but an eye for a long term goalie for the Flames has not been one of them.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by 868904

Tre is going to get fired over this or he’s going to have to fire those who were aiding him with this decision (Sigalet, Huska, and Pascall, the goalie coach and Stockton braintrust.

They need to fire everyone involved with goaltending development regardless. In the history of the Flames franchise they have drafted 28 goaltenders, of which a grand total of 2 have become legitimate NHL starters (Mike Vernon, Craig Anderson), and Vernon was the only one to do so as a Flame. What other NHL team has such an abysmal track record for developing goaltenders? It's an absolute embarrassment and probably the #1 reason why the Flames have been such a failure of an organization for the past quarter century

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

They need to fire everyone involved with goaltending development regardless. In the history of the Flames franchise they have drafted 28 goaltenders, of which a grand total of 2 have become legitimate NHL starters (Mike Vernon, Craig Anderson), and Vernon was the only one to do so as a Flame. What other NHL team has such an abysmal track record for developing goaltenders? It's an absolute embarrassment and probably the #1 reason why the Flames have been such a failure of an organization for the past quarter century

Philly?

[Hot_Flatus]

My only issue with Treliving has been his course of action on the goaltending front and we are now finally feeling the repercussions of continual band-aid solutions and repeated swing and misses to bring in a real solution. The Flames might now actually miss out on a division winning season because of his mistakes in this area and that is truly hard to swallow as a fan.

He's been great on the trade front and really only made 2-3 bad UFA signings, which is probably well above league average for efficiency. Way too early to count Neal out. I'm now at the point where I feel Treliving better go out and get someone at all costs. Worrying about the future at this point seems moot when we've already moved picks out at will to fix other areas of the roster.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

They need to fire everyone involved with goaltending development regardless. In the history of the Flames franchise they have drafted 28 goaltenders, of which a grand total of 2 have become legitimate NHL starters (Mike Vernon, Craig Anderson), and Vernon was the only one to do so as a Flame. What other NHL team has such an abysmal track record for developing goaltenders? It's an absolute embarrassment and probably the #1 reason why the Flames have been such a failure of an organization for the past quarter century

Look north - after 1980-81 (Moog-Fuhr) they drafted Dubnyk but nothing else (and Dubnyk was run out of town). Look west (aside from Schneider, I guess, and they got rid of him).

LA has drafted one great goalie (they still have him). Oh, and they drafted Billy Smith but he only played 5 games and got taken by the Isles in expansion.

Jets/Coyotes haven't done very well. Drafted Khabibhulin. And Essensa. Not much else unless you count Darling.

You really have to get lucky to actually draft a good goalie.

[Salt Water Cowboy #10]

LA drafted Jones if I recall correctly.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Salt Water Cowboy #10

LA drafted Jones if I recall correctly.

Jones was undrafted.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

the Flames are contenders this year because Treliving made a great huge trade.

Brodie was pretty well useless for the last 2 seasons ( minimal trade value) and now back with Gio is better than Hamilton.

Lindholm is better than Ferland .

Hamilton and Ferland for Lindholm would have made the Flames a better team.

Hanifin as a throw in for Fox is a clear Flames win on the all time best trade list.

--------

The Flames have the potential to miss the playoffs because he was unable to obtain a top 16 goalie. There list of top 16 goalies league wide that were moved: none

Maybe Hutton with the Sabres??

Nice.

I would add the coaching change as another factor. Peters' usage of Smith has everyone pissed right now, but I like the way the Flames are playing.

[burn_this_city]

This is a near elite team, if they can get average goaltending. Overall Treliving has done a good job assembling the roster of skaters, but he's totally mucked up the goalies.

[GioforPM]

If Treliving gambled on a goalie, IMO it was Gillies/Parsons, not Smith. I think he signed Smith as a stopgap in the belief that one of those two would emerge as a quality goalie by now. That's why you sign a 34 year old to a 2 year contract, and you don't go for a long term contract with a slightly younger goalie. I think the asking price for some of the other goalies was just too high as well (both trades and UFA contracts). Also, there's not one of the goalies who were rumoured to be available that didn't have risks.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If Treliving gambled on a goalie, IMO it was Gillies/Parsons, not Smith. I think he signed Smith as a stopgap in the belief that one of those two would emerge as a quality goalie by now. That's why you sign a 34 year old to a 2 year contract, and you don't go for a long term contract with a slightly younger goalie. I think the asking price for some of the other goalies was just too high as well (both trades and UFA contracts). Also, there's not one of the goalies who were rumoured to be available that didn't have risks.

But why was the goalie we got out of all those rumoured the only one who has fallen off a cliff statistically?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Bingo

We really need to get a button that's the opposite of THANKS

Someone should talk to the site owner and get working on that one!

[Classic_Sniper]

As much as I applauded Treliving for recognizing how bad his bottom 6 was last season and for blowing it up to attempt to rectify it this season. We're pretty much in the same spot this season where this team is relying on a few players to win every game. Most of his new additions in Neal, Ryan, Hanifin, Czarnik, Peluso and etc have not impressed. Jankowski, Hathaway and Bennett are actually on pace to under produce what they did last season. The goaltending carousel ha been tiring to watch and all the buyouts and draft pick trades are adding up.

Overall, I'd say Treliving is a smart GM with a work ethic that cannot be matched and his RFA signings are excellent. But it's painfully obvious his biggest fault is pro scouting and talent evaluation as the sheer number of failed players who have fizzled out here is mind boggling. Throw in the ones we got rid of who've carved out NHL careers in Baertschi, Byron and Granlund and It's enough of a sample size to question his eye and/or his pro scouts.

If this team struggles down the stretch again like they did last season and miss the playoffs. I can't see how Treliving doesn't get the boot. If it was me making the decision, I'd probably keep Treliving, but I'd hire a new team of pro scouts because sooner or later, these buyouts and failed risky UFA signings are going to bite us in the butt hard.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

But why was the goalie we got out of all those rumoured the only one who has fallen off a cliff statistically?

He guessed poorly. Plus he didn't want to or couldn't pay what was asked for the others.

I didn't want Smith at the time because of age and fragility. But I thought I was proven to be stupid at the beginning of last year.

That said, I wasn't sold on Bishop (I thought he was great in his day but becoming injury prone) or Fleury (age plus I've was never sold on him in Pittsburgh). I was leaning towards a stopgap though I was thinking Mason (which would have been equally bad).

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

As much as I applauded Treliving for recognizing how bad his bottom 6 was last season and for blowing it up to attempt to rectify it this season. We're pretty much in the same spot this season where this team is relying on a few players to win every game. Most of his new additions in Neal, Ryan, Hanifin, Czarnik, Peluso and etc have not impressed. Jankowski, Hathaway and Bennett are actually on pace to under produce what they did last season. The goaltending carousel ha been tiring to watch and all the buyouts and draft pick trades are adding up.

Overall, I'd say Treliving is a smart GM with a work ethic that cannot be matched and his RFA signings are excellent. But it's painfully obvious his biggest fault is pro scouting and talent evaluation as the sheer number of failed players who have fizzled out here is mind boggling. Throw in the ones we got rid of who've carved out NHL careers in Baertschi, Byron and Granlund and It's enough of a sample size to question his eye and/or his pro scouts.

If this team struggles down the stretch again like they did last season and miss the playoffs. I can't see how Treliving doesn't get the boot. If it was me making the decision, I'd probably keep Treliving, but I'd hire a new team of pro scouts because sooner or later, these buyouts and failed risky UFA signings are going to bite us in the butt hard.

Marcus Granlund?

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Bingo

We really need to get a button that's the opposite of THANKS

EDIT: Beaten to it by Fuzz.

[killer_carlson]

My observation and critique of Treliving is that he struggles making mid-season Adjustments to the roster.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

My observation and critique of Treliving is that he struggles making mid-season Adjustments to the roster.

Michael Stone?