The ongoing X and Elon Musk Transgressions Thread

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If you point out any shortcomings of current EV's, you must drive a massive truck and hate the environment. It's only logical.

And be a racist. It's always the racists

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

1) Not sure where you're getting your numbers, Alberta's power mix is nowhere near that. It certainly changes day to day but as of right now (you can look it up on a real time basis) AESO is running ~71% gas, 7% coal

I got it here
https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-an...s-alberta.html

2) So yeah, difference in total emissions from an EV in Alberta vs Quebec or Ontario is going to be very different, but that doesn't change the fact that even with our power mix, and high use of fossil fuels, an EV in Alberta will still produce fewer emissions overall than an ICE, because a large power plant has a much better thermal efficiency that an ICE, even with transmission and charging losses

It is my understanding that thermal power plants have about ~40 percent efficiency
Transmission losses are around 10-15%
Say the EV has 85% power to wheels

So that would put you around 30 percent

I don’t think that is much better than an ICE, particularly if the ICE is supplemented in a hybrid with regenerative braking contribution

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I got it here
https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-an...s-alberta.html




It is my understanding that thermal power plants have about ~40 percent efficiency
Transmission losses are around 10-15%
Say the EV has 85% power to wheels

So that would put you around 30 percent

I don’t think that is much better than an ICE, particularly if the ICE is supplemented in a hybrid with regenerative braking contribution

That data is from 2019, which with the pace of coal retirement is way out of date. Power production in Alberta from coal is currently <10%, and by the end of the year will be completely phased out.
As of right this second (again, I'm looking at a real time snapshot) Alberta is running on ~7% coal, and 11% wind.

As for 15% transmission loss, it's more like 5%
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=105&t=3

But sure, let's charging is really inefficient, and that the total loss is 15%

We still get:
40% * 85% = 34%
not 30%
There are also going to be mechanical and electrical losses from the battery, but you get a lot of those same losses in a ICE, so let's assume they even out.

A gas powered car is in the 25-35% range. (Diesel does better, but the majority of cars here are gas)
So the worst case for an EV, is equivalent to the best case for an ICE.

That doesn't even consider that a portion of the power for that EV will be wind (0 emissions), solar (0 emissions), or combined cycle gas which is closer to 50% efficiency.

And if we get really deep into it, let's not forget that gasoline kind of has transmission losses as well, as it needs to be pipelined to a refinery, then pipelined or trucked to a distributor, and finally trucked to the retailer, compared to natural gas that needs to be piped to the power plant. So if you take upstream emissions into account as well, you're looking even worse for an EV.

It's a complicated system, and its frustrating enough when people arguing against EV's don't consider some of the nuance, such as upstream emissions, and even worse when they get basic underlying principles wrong, such as claiming 35% of the power being used comes from coal.

Don't believe me, ask the EPA

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/el...-vehicle-myths

[DeluxeMoustache]

Yup, I quickly searched and the data was a bit old. Don’t get hung up on the percent of coal in the mix as a reason to throw out the bigger picture

Alberta is still around ~80 percent hydrocarbon based electricity generation

Point stands that the advantage of EVs is significant where there is a very high portion of renewables in the mix, and much, much less where electricity is generated from hydrocarbons

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Yup, I quickly searched and the data was a bit old. Don’t get hung up on the percent of coal in the mix as a reason to throw out the bigger picture

Alberta is still around ~80 percent hydrocarbon based electricity generation

Point stands that the advantage of EVs is significant where there is a very high portion of renewables in the mix, and much, much less where electricity is generated from hydrocarbons

Yeah, of course it is.
The point also stands that even in an electrical system with high hydrocarbon use, an EV results in fewer emissions overall.

An EV in Alberta will result in more emissions than an EV in Ontario. And both will result in fewer emissions than an ICE anywhere.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

Robocop

I was thinking more 'Total Recall.'

Driven by one of these Johnny Cab guys!:



Fun Fact: Its Robert Picardo!

Thats the self-driving car of the future!!

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by chedder

The tesla truck looks like it's straight out of a 1980's Sci-fi movie with very little budget.

I actually like that. I'm not a truck guy at all, but the cybertruck is a look I'm partial to. Kind of like that 1980s Twitter Blue logo that looked like something out of an 80's arcade. 80's sci-fi was fun.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Locke

I was thinking more 'Total Recall.'

Driven by one of these Johnny Cab guys!:



Fun Fact: Its Robert Picardo!

Thats the self-driving car of the future!!

Please state the nature of the Johnny Cab emergency.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Yeah, of course it is.
The point also stands that even in an electrical system with high hydrocarbon use, an EV results in fewer emissions overall.

An EV in Alberta will result in more emissions than an EV in Ontario. And both will result in fewer emissions than an ICE anywhere.

Well, no you haven’t demonstrated conclusively that an EV in a location with a primarily hydrocarbon based electrical generation system will result in less emissions

You pointed out that the EIA estimates 5 percent losses due to transmission. Selecting the most favourable estimate, and basing your argument around it.

They appear to base it on a high level generation statistic and a volume of nationwide electricity sales.

I read something from Schneider Electric that places losses around 8-15%
https://blog.se.com/energy-managemen...r-line-losses/

Considering the main parts of a typical Transmission & Distribution network, here are the average values of power losses at the different steps*:

1-2% – Step-up transformer from generator to Transmission line
2-4% – Transmission line
1-2% – Step-down transformer from Transmission line to Distribution network
4-6% – Distribution network transformers and cables
The overall losses between the power plant and consumers is then in the range between 8 and 15%.

Probably on the higher side in Alberta


As far as your ‘don’t believe me, ask the EPA’, I see their graphic which likely reflects a lower HC contribution to the mix than Alberta would have. They are arguing the bigger picture case, not the local case in a high HC electricity mix

We agree that in a low carbon electricity environment, the advantage is pronounced

I can accept that they are around the same order of magnitude in a hydrocarbon heavy mix, but there is still work to be done to demonstrate a material advantage

I don’t actually care all that much, I’ve got a hybrid and like it fine.

Just was responding to the comment about EV owners in Alberta flexing and curious to dig a bit deeper

[Fuzz]

I'm sure you can argue these all sorts of ways, like Calgary has their generation very close to the city, so losses are smaller, but then you have NG extraction and transport which emits methane, which you wouldn't have with an ICE, and on and on. I think the point is an EV may be a little better in Alberta, but not nearly as good as Quebec. So it almost makes sense to distribute limited EV rebates to provinces that have the best electricity mix, if the goal is to reduce emissions. Of course, this comes with the caveat that other provinces don't get to crap on us for fewer EV's, and GFL with that one.

[MRCboicgy]

Hey, how's Twitter doing?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Someone has offered to take it off Musk's hands for a cool $30B loss.

https://news.yahoo.com/twitter-angel...111243037.html

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Someone has offered to take it off Musk's hands for a cool $30B loss.

https://news.yahoo.com/twitter-angel...111243037.html

I like how he trolled him using the same wording Musk did with his offer.

[GordonBlue]

The usual Musk going back on his word, and also not paying money he's supposed to.

Twitter Still Hasn’t Sent Severance Agreements, And Ex-Workers Are Demanding Answers

When Twitter sacked approximately half of its 7,500-person workforce in early November of 2022, incoming CEO Elon Musk claimed that “everyone exited was offered 3 months of severance, which is 50% more than legally required.”

While Musk had promised that they would get an additional month of salary as severance, these workers say they are actually owed far more given what Twitter, as a corporation, had already agreed to pay prior to the Musk acquisition. That severance package was also to include bonuses, stock vesting and other benefits that could total tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars per employee.

another small round of job cuts.
Elon Cuts Costs by Laying Off the People Who Make Twitter Money

https://gizmodo.com/elon-cuts-costs-...ney-1849955413

The company has slashed about 40 additional jobs in its data science and engineering sectors, according to a report. A source close to the matter also confirmed Wednesday layoffs to Gizmodo and noted that the product software engineering, monetization, and advertising prediction teams were the most impacted.

The ad predict team was tasked with using machine leaning technology to determine the best way to target advertisements to Twitter users, and developing ad algorithms. Without that engineering expertise, Twitter’s ability to optimize its ads and accompanying revenue could be in jeopardy, reported The Information.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Someone has offered to take it off Musk's hands for a cool $30B loss.

https://news.yahoo.com/twitter-angel...111243037.html

Funny thing is, I bet if he accepted the offer he'd make his $30B back in Tesla value in short order.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

Funny thing is, I bet if he accepted the offer he'd make his $30B back in Tesla value in short order.

I doubt it. Once the bubble pops unlikely it reinflates. Musk has lost his aura and that aura was driving the stock price. When he returns to Tesla he's not going to be looked at as the same guy with the golden touch. The stock price will now be based more on actual results and realistic forecasts instead of the magical genius will figure it all.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I doubt it. Once the bubble pops unlikely it reinflates. Musk has lost his aura and that aura was driving the stock price. When he returns to Tesla he's not going to be looked at as the same guy with the golden touch. The stock price will now be based more on actual results and realistic forecasts instead of the magical genius will figure it all.

Might be the best thing to happen to Tesla since winning the early EV adopter race.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

Funny thing is, I bet if he accepted the offer he'd make his $30B back in Tesla value in short order.

I doubt that. Musk has done such irreparable damage to his name that it is spilling over to the companies he owns. Long-time Tesla fanbois have gone quiet as the shift in politics attaches a stigma to their vehicles. Sales are in the tank and Tesla is offering huge incentives to push their product out the door. There are other less toxic products on the market now and don't have you wondering if the owner of the company is going to say something stupid that will impact the value of your vehicle.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Might be the best thing to happen to Tesla since winning the early EV adopter race.

Best think for Tesla is to ditch Musk altogether. I think Much of the value he added to the company is gone. They need to get rid of him and focus on business.

I think he also hurts them with the ongoing legal troubles he causes.

Like the situation about artificially inflating share price with the posts about having investors to take Tesla private.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

Best think for Tesla is to ditch Musk altogether. I think Much of the value he added to the company is gone. They need to get rid of him and focus on business.

I think he also hurts them with the ongoing legal troubles he causes.

The Vince McMahon effect.