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Old 11-30-2017, 01:19 PM   #4381
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^lol


I would consider trading Hamilton + for OEL.
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:33 PM   #4382
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^lol


I would consider trading Hamilton + for OEL.
why?

I don't think this really fixes the team at the moment.

It's most likely a lateral move with a potentially large cap hit at the end of it.

And what is that (+) - depending on that, it could very well be bad asset management.

I don't want to get into a debate about whether Hamilton is over valued by us fans etc. but this doesn't really address the team's needs at the moment and is practically tinkering just for the sake of tinkering.
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:39 PM   #4383
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I love how Sam Bennett is considered a bust at 21 by some. Ridiculous.
This post reminds me of that meme with the dog saying everything is fine as the house burns down around him. I have yet to see a compelling argument for Bennett not being a bust other than "he's still young". The numbers and eye test have both shown regression every year. Development curves of guys like Backlund and Scheifele are outliers and not really a good thing to bank on happening.

Bennett has been horrible this year. It's not unfair to start entertaining the very real possibility that he is in fact going to bust. There's no point in trading him, I don't think you'd get anything of value for him. Maybe he can salvage a 40 points/year career but he's running out of time. I think the Flames are preparing for what happens if he never realizes his potential.
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:45 PM   #4384
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why?

I don't think this really fixes the team at the moment.

It's most likely a lateral move with a potentially large cap hit at the end of it.

And what is that (+) - depending on that, it could very well be bad asset management.

I don't want to get into a debate about whether Hamilton is over valued by us fans etc. but this doesn't really address the team's needs at the moment and is practically tinkering just for the sake of tinkering.
Hamiltonís play and value is a point of debate on here. Personally, I think OEL is a substantial upgrade on Hamilton. And with his Gio enhanced advanced stats, I could see Chayka being very attracted to Hamilton.

I think OEL is an upgrade on every Flames D, so if there is a reasonable deal to be made, you take it IMO.
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:53 PM   #4385
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he numbers and eye test have both shown regression every year. Development curves of guys like Backlund and Scheifele are outliers and not really a good thing to bank on happening. .
Scheifele, outside of his actual numbers as he's pretty elite, is not some type of outlier.

Dominate in the OHL as a 19 year old. With a handful of games in the NHL as tryouts sprinkled in.

An uneventful but hopeful rookie season as a 20 year old where he was on pace for 44 points before he went down for the season injured.

60+ as a 22 year old. PPG as a 23 year old and now over PPG as a 24 year old. He's improved every year from a solid base as a 20 year old rookie.
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:53 PM   #4386
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Hamilton’s play and value is a point of debate on here. Personally, I think OEL is a substantial upgrade on Hamilton. And with his Gio enhanced advanced stats, I could see Chayka being very attracted to Hamilton.

I think OEL is an upgrade on every Flames D, so if there is a reasonable deal to be made, you take it IMO.
Who does he play with? Gio?

Doesn't fix anything and we are still in the same boat.

If you move Brodie to Gio's pairing, then why not try that with Hamilton and save you the "+"

I understand that Hamilton's value is questioned but jesus do people ever want to run him out of town.

meanwhile, TJ Brodie is looked at as this 100% bounce-back player that would only be better if he wasn't being dragged down by his linemates - to which he has played with 4 over the past few years, and none have worked.

If defence is the thing holding the flames back right now, it doesn't really make sense to trade one of the few who are actually performing as expected.

Brodie++ for OEL? sure. Because that actually addresses an issue for a team looking to make moves this postseason. but that is a whole other issue.

Last edited by Cappy; 11-30-2017 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:55 PM   #4387
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This post reminds me of that meme with the dog saying everything is fine as the house burns down around him. I have yet to see a compelling argument for Bennett not being a bust other than "he's still young". The numbers and eye test have both shown regression every year. Development curves of guys like Backlund and Scheifele are outliers and not really a good thing to bank on happening.

Bennett has been horrible this year. It's not unfair to start entertaining the very real possibility that he is in fact going to bust. There's no point in trading him, I don't think you'd get anything of value for him. Maybe he can salvage a 40 points/year career but he's running out of time. I think the Flames are preparing for what happens if he never realizes his potential.

What about Sven? He is 25 and just starting to realize his offensive potential. He was another player that looked to be regressing each year since his draft and gets moved for a pick and is a first liner on his current team.

The fact Bennett is not a star by 21 has people calling him a bust. He has had nothing but terrible linemates under Gulutzan and has his confidence widdle away. His shift to the wing came late and he still has no confidence.

If Bennett is traded love him to Florida or Carolina or somewhere that it wonít sting to watch him turn into an effective player.

Personally I fire Gulutzan before trading Bennett and see if a new coach can get him going. Obviously that isnít the only reason I fire Gulutzan but it is in the pile of things he does that make me question if he is the right coach for this team.
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Old 11-30-2017, 02:04 PM   #4388
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Sven wasn't the 1OA North American skater (obviously but you get the idea) or 4OA draft pick in his draft year. Expectations weren't the same.
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Old 11-30-2017, 02:07 PM   #4389
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What about Sven? He is 25 and just starting to realize his offensive potential. He was another player that looked to be regressing each year since his draft and gets moved for a pick and is a first liner on his current team.

The fact Bennett is not a star by 21 has people calling him a bust. He has had nothing but terrible linemates under Gulutzan and has his confidence widdle away. His shift to the wing came late and he still has no confidence.

If Bennett is traded love him to Florida or Carolina or somewhere that it wonít sting to watch him turn into an effective player.

Personally I fire Gulutzan before trading Bennett and see if a new coach can get him going. Obviously that isnít the only reason I fire Gulutzan but it is in the pile of things he does that make me question if he is the right coach for this team.
I agree with you for the most part, I just think the possibility of Bennett busting is real and I see posters constantly dismissing it because he's young. This is his third year in the NHL, he's not new to this whole thing. If there were any signs that he's improving that would be different, but I'm just not seeing it from him right now.
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:21 PM   #4390
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I would trade Brodie + for OEL. I like Hamilton and I do not see Brodie ever adjusting to Gulutzan's style hockey. I hope I am wrong about that last comment though.
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:41 PM   #4391
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Sven wasn't the 1OA North American skater (obviously but you get the idea) or 4OA draft pick in his draft year. Expectations weren't the same.
Expectations based off draft position in a relatively weak draft are stupid.
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:46 PM   #4392
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I would also trade Brodie+ for OEL but would also consider moving Hamilton for a young scoring forward (Marner, Brady Tkachuk)

If the Flames had Gio, OEL, Hamonic, Stone they could afford to move another high priced D out to address scoring issues considering OEL should upgrade our blueline.

I do think OEL is being massively overrated here. I wouldn’t trade Hamilton + for him. They have scored around the same rate and Dougie is younger and signed longer term. OEL has played for a horrible team and in his first year as captain they get off to a historically bad start with a top 4 D that on paper should be top 10 in the league. That is not on his shoulders but I can’t help but think some folks have a grass is greener approach here when talking about Brodie/Hamilton and OEL.
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:49 PM   #4393
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I would also trade Brodie+ for OEL but would also consider moving Hamilton for a young scoring forward (Marner, Brady Tkachuk)

If the Flames had Gio, OEL, Hamonic, Stone they could afford to move another high priced D out to address scoring issues considering OEL should upgrade our blueline.

I do think OEL is being massively overrated here. I wouldnít trade Hamilton + for him. They have scored around the same rate and Dougie is younger and signed longer term. OEL has played for a horrible team and in his first year as captain they get off to a historically bad start with a top 4 D that on paper should be top 10 in the league. That is not on his shoulders but I canít help but think some folks have a grass is greener approach here when talking about Brodie/Hamilton and OEL.

How do you trade for Brady Tkachuk? He isnít even eligible to be drafted until June?
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:54 PM   #4394
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Maybe the Flames brought Bennett up too soon. Maybe he needed more time in the minors. I'm just sayin'
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:56 PM   #4395
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Sven wasn't the 1OA North American skater (obviously but you get the idea) or 4OA draft pick in his draft year. Expectations weren't the same.
Sven went 2ppg in his draft +1 year and scored 3 in 5 games. Not only that the Flames were starved for a young scoring forward. If anything he had greater expectations than Bennett who missed 90% of his draft +1 year and the Flames has Monahan and Gaudreau at that time so the fans were not as starved for Bennett to be on the team

If Bennett didn’t have year 1 burned off his ELC in the playoffs perhaps the Flames could have handled him differently?
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:58 PM   #4396
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How do you trade for Brady Tkachuk? He isnít even eligible to be drafted until June?
Trade Dougie for the pick at the draft of the option is available.

I donít think the Flames should consider a D for forward swap until the summer. The blueline is struggling now but a deep blueline is needed in the playoffs (unless you are a team with 2 generational players like Pitt)
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Old 11-30-2017, 04:00 PM   #4397
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The fact Bennett is not a star by 21 has people calling him a bust.
Guys drafted as scorers who eventually become scorers usually show something by their third full season in the NHL. Never mind star, Bennett is not even an average NHLer at this point. Not even close.

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If Bennett is traded love him to Florida or Carolina or somewhere that it wonít sting to watch him turn into an effective player.
Bennett may well play better if he's moved. But if that happens, it doesn't mean he would have played better if he stayed with the Flames. Change of scenery trades for players of his age and pedigree aren't uncommon. Typically you get another disappointment back, in hopes that the change of scenery works on your end too.
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If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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Old 11-30-2017, 04:05 PM   #4398
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Guys drafted as scorers who eventually become scorers usually show something by their third full season in the NHL. Never mind star, Bennett is not even an average NHLer at this point. Not even close.



Bennett may well play better if he's moved. But if that happens, it doesn't mean he would have played better if he stayed with the Flames. Change of scenery trades for players of his age and pedigree aren't uncommon. Typically you get another disappointment back, in hopes that the change of scenery works on your end too.

I would say Bennett scoring 18 goals as a 19 year old is showing something. He has also scored several highlight reel goals in his first season.

He has regressed badly when GG forced him to be a C when he wasn’t ready.

I am glad he is on the wing but I would try him with Backs and Fro again. Similar situation with Brodie who has regressed under GG being forced to move to the left side. His backhand was a great asset and now that he doesn’t play his offside he uses it less and has not looked the same as he did under Hartley. I think a new coach could be what both players need.

Sure Bennett may need a change of scenery but his value is so low there is a far better chance the trade doesn’t work out for the Flames. I fire GG before trading Bennett for a 2nd and near bust prospect

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Old 11-30-2017, 04:21 PM   #4399
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I would say Bennett scoring 18 goals as a 19 year old is showing something. He has also scored several highlight reel goals in his first season.

He has regressed badly when GG forced him to be a C when he wasnít ready.

I am glad he is on the wing but I would try him with Backs and Fro again. Similar situation with. Rosie who has regressed under GG being forced to move to the left side. His backhand was a great asset and now that he doesnít play his offside he uses it less and has not looked the same as he did under Hartley. I think a new coach could be what both players need.

Sure Bennett may need a change of scenery but his value is so low there is a far better chance the trade doesnít work out for the Flames. I fire GG before trading Bennett for a 2nd and near bust prospect
Wut?

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Old 11-30-2017, 04:25 PM   #4400
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Insider trading:
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider...-trade~1274599

Henrique/Vantanen trade went back to the draft. Cooled down after Theodore trade to Vegas and picked up again when Ducks missed out on Duchene.

Oilers willing to make a much smaller deal involving players like Caggiula, Kharia, Slepyshev
Looking for a d-man or lateral move up front

Hextall won't fire his coach but could make a deal.
Looking to add a forward to his 2nd or 3rd line to be a catalyst but won't trade away any young players.

Everyone made a big deal about Brad Treliving not having a new deal in his final contract year.
Right now there are 5 NHL GMs in the final year of their contract: Holland, Fletcher, Armstrong, Benning, Lamoriello.
Not sure if this is now the new trend with owners and GMs

CHLers Hockey Canada is looking at for the Olympics: Jordan Kyrou, Sam Steel, and Robert Thomas

Tavares says he needs more time before he makes a decision on re-signing but wouldn't rule out signing during the season.

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