If the debate between these two actually sways your vote at all, you simply haven't been paying attention. I can't imagine there are still undecided voters at this point.
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Originally Posted by ResAlien
If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
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So apparently the first major debate between Trump and Biden is tonight. There's been so much insanity lately, I honestly didn't even notice.
Part of me doesn't even care to watch it, as it will no doubt be 90 straight minutes of Trump just spouting insane bulls**t and launching childish personal attacks on Biden. But the other half of me is curious to see if Biden can simply ignore Trump's idiocy and stay on message. Hillary destroyed Trump in the 2016 debates. Can Biden do the same?
I'm going to stand by, and wait for the Colbert summary. He usually hits all the high notes. I think watching the whole thing might cause my brain to melt.
If the debate between these two actually sways your vote at all, you simply haven't been paying attention. I can't imagine there are still undecided voters at this point.
This is a pretty common misconception in elections at this point.
No one is trying to convince the undecideds. It's about motivating your base, and, NOT turning them off like Hilary did.
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Cheating on your taxes doesn’t make you a good businessman. It makes you a tax evader and a criminal.
I agree. On top of that, the tax code is clearly written with its fair share of loopholes that benefit the rich and powerful.
I'm not sure what your occupation is, but given your username maybe you could explain to everyone how tax deferrals and write offs work when you buy large real estate holdings.
Maybe then people will understand what Trump is doing.
So are you telling us that you prefer to pay MORE tax than necessary?
There's a huge difference between tax avoidance versus tax minimization.
If you're wealthy enough due to actually having grown business' (rather than just pure inheritance) then likely you have a team of accountants and taxation experts. These folks would find and use legal means to reduce taxation. Personally my goal is to always minimize, legally, how much tax I have to pay. Most people would agree and figure that's fairly obvious and smart. That said I'm always amazed at friends and co-workers who don't even consider tax reduction strategies.
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With the news Trump is almost a $Billion in debt. "That's not a national security risk, not at all." - Every GOP Senator/Congressmen/Judge
Everything about Trump is a security threat. He's friends with enemy dictators, everything from his administration leaks, he's got more compromising photos/videos/etc than anyone else, he's actively doing business with foreign companies while setting foreign policy. They've already accepted he's a massive security risk.
My biggest concern is that should Trump lose, the two months pre-inauguration will be spent selling secrets to his autocratic friends to help clear his debt.
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My biggest concern is that should Trump lose, the two months pre-inauguration will be spent selling secrets to his autocratic friends to help clear his debt.
How is that any different from the last four years?
So are you telling us that you prefer to pay MORE tax than necessary?
There's a huge difference between tax avoidance versus tax minimization.
If you're wealthy enough due to actually having grown business' (rather than just pure inheritance) then likely you have a team of accountants and taxation experts. These folks would find and use legal means to reduce taxation. Personally my goal is to always minimize, legally, how much tax I have to pay. Most people would agree and figure that's fairly obvious and smart. That said I'm always amazed at friends and co-workers who don't even consider tax reduction strategies.
No, I think a business should absolutely minimize the amount of taxes they spend. A lot of the tax reduction strategies are based around encouraging growth and reinvestment into a company.
But we aren't talking about small business tax reduction here. We are talking about how billionares use real estate holdings to defer their tax payments, or even claim loses when in fact their asset value goes up and they are still 'rich.'
That was not my point. Biden did just fine vs. Sanders.
I just want to see a Prosecutor take the case to Trump.
Sanders spent a lot of effort trying not to alienate the democratic establishment by buddying up to Biden whenever he got the chance. He ran his campaign like a creampuff who just wanted to bang his drum one more time, make his money and go home.
No, I think a business should absolutely minimize the amount of taxes they spend. A lot of the tax reduction strategies are based around encouraging growth and reinvestment into a company.
But we aren't talking about small business tax reduction here. We are talking about how billionares use real estate holdings to defer their tax payments, or even claim loses when in fact their asset value goes up and they are still 'rich.'
It's a complicated topic that always seems to be discussed without any nuance.
If a billionaire is losing money every year, should he be paying taxes? Income is generally taxed, not wealth. Taxing wealth makes sense at some level, but every attempt to do so usually causes more problems than it creates.
Then there's the question if a pretend billionaire who owes more than he has should pay any kind of taxes.
It seems that Trump has always taken the position that he doesn't care about his actual wealth, and just enjoys using jets, mansions, penthouses to look rich and enjoy a rich lifestyle. He probably pushed the envelope on what is allowed by the tax code in that area, but it's a completely different issue than real wealthy people not paying a fair share of taxes.
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This is a pretty common misconception in elections at this point.
No one is trying to convince the undecideds. It's about motivating your base, and, NOT turning them off like Hilary did.
There are of chunk of long time blue collar democrat voters in the rust belt that flipped to Trump, and there seems to be a lot of buyer remorse among them. This election is won by bring them back and lost if he can't.
So are you telling us that you prefer to pay MORE tax than necessary?
I don't think Azure is saying that. I think we all want to pay what is fair, and Azure is arguing that if the tax code is drafted with so many loopholes that an individual is irresponsible for NOT taking advantage of them. I agree with this. You should be taking advantage of all loopholes available to you. The problem is there are so many tax loopholes available only if you make certain levels of wealth, or have access to certain types of investments.
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There's a huge difference between tax avoidance versus tax minimization.
Bingo, and this is where Trump is in trouble. He's intentionally inflated the value of his properties to increase his operational losses, so he doesn't pay any tax whatsoever. To double down on that, he under-reports income and then shields that income through the use of consulting fees, paid back to his own companies. All of this is illegal and is a clear tax avoidance strategy. As Cohen has stated, Trump hires people who aren't afraid to try breaking the rules, because they know Trump will sue and keep them out of prison... until he doesn't. He enables their crooked instincts and it works in his advantage because he can claim they did the wrong and he was at arm's length.
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Originally Posted by Azure
A lot of the tax reduction strategies are based around encouraging growth and reinvestment into a company.
Is this what Trump does? Honestly?
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We are talking about how billionares use real estate holdings to defer their tax payments, or even claim loses when in fact their asset value goes up and they are still 'rich.'
What we are finding out is Trump isn't rich. It's a facade that is maintained only through obfuscation and trying to stay one grift ahead of the last. His wealth is established by the fact that he has loans out to support his empire. According to his own tax records those holdings are all losers, so will be worth pennies on the dollar when they go to auction. The house of cards will come crashing down on him when those loans come due because he has no cash or cash flow left to support them. He will be forced to sell off everything he has to meet his loan commitments, and go into bankruptcy for the seventh time, because he is almost a billion dollars in debt. At that point, those who provided the backing for those loans will coming looking for their pound of flesh. Some of the debtors have very different ways of collecting than others.
