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Old 11-21-2017, 07:58 PM   #21
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The last few games, Jagr looks like he's 35 instead of 45. He's been REALLY good.
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:59 PM   #22
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Gaudreau A+ no explanantion needed
Monahan A+ he could be a better player if he carried the puck more and played more physical but relative to expectations he’s been unreal
Ferland A+ he’s done exactly what he’s needed to. would like to see him break some faces but I’ll take scoring
Tkachuk B- not generating as many dangerous chances as he’s used to, but still more than solid
Backlund C- not generating chances and also making some really lazy plays. he is way better than he has shown so far
Frolik B+ Frolik is Frolik, he’s gonna put up like 40 points and be good defensively. wish he could have a little more vision/patience in the offensive zone but that’s not who he is
Bennett D+ effort is there and he’s getting better, but I was expecting a breakout season when it’s been mostly a disaster. maybe playing with Brouwer ruined him, maybe he was just never good to begin with.
Jankowski B+ better than I expected but can still improve
Jagr A- unreal player, can’t believe it took until training camp to sign him.
Versteeg B- at times awful, at times pretty good, he is what he is and he is a net positive, though I question if Hamilton or Stone couldn’t do similar on the PP
Stajan C better than he’s being given credit for by a lot of people, I think he still has a place in this league but probably not for too much longer
Brouwer B- better than I expected but still really bad at hockey
Familton B he’s an ok hockey player, perfect injury fill in, always brings energy
Lazar C- wasn’t expecting much but I’m still disappointed

Gio C+ still the best the Flames have, but the brain farts have been a little more frequent than desired
Hamilton B- doing everything he needs to but not much more, he is better than he is playing
Brodie D+ either he’s way better than he’s shown or Gio seriously carried him for a few years, starting to unsure which is correct, point totals are nice though
Hamonic D- worst player on the team relative to expectations, hoping he turns it around, defensive abilities definitely exaggerated
Kulak A knew he was an NHLer but didn’t think he was this good
Stone C was hoping for more but he’s about as expected

Smith A+ Kind of sad that a guy with just-above-average-starter numbers is blowing away expectations but I certainly wasn’t expecting this, hopefully he keeps it up
Lack C- a little worse than expected, would have rather rolled the dice with Rittich but I knew that wasn’t gonna happen, not as bad as people make him out to be, but still not good
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:16 PM   #23
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Backlund C- not generating chances and also making some really lazy plays. he is way better than he has shown so far
Backlund has 14 points in 20 games, is a ~57% CF% at even strength, second in the league in takeaways (24 compared to 9 giveaways), and is second among forwards in icetime (18:49 - one second behind Gaudreau).

C minus???

Tough crowd. Some of the comments (not specifically yours) about guys like Monahan, Backlund, Tkachuk (not creating enough offensively, etc.) kind of take these guys for granted, in my opinion.
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:23 PM   #24
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Tough crowd with Brodie. But he's still on pace for 57 pts, is 3rd in team scoring and 20th in D scoring. Literally anybody would take those stats for a defenceman. And yet some people want him to actually be benched.

I'm in the same camp that he looks off and makes dumb plays that he never used to make. But there's no denying he's producing at a career pace.
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:46 PM   #25
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Simple to rate the players (in my head anyway)

A: Gaudreau, Monahan, Smith, Giordano, Hamilton

Sure you can nitpick (Smith has had a bad game or two, Giordano isn't putting up as many points, etc) but these guys are our MVPs so far and the reason we are having success.

B: Backlund, Frolik, Tkachuk, Ferland

All guys making a difference on the ice. All doing at least as well as they should be.

C: Jankowski, Jagr, Kulak, Stone

Nothing to be disappointed with here. In a lesser role, but contributing as they should.

D: Hamonic, Brodie, Versteeg

All contributors, but disappointing relative to what they should be doing.

F: Lack, Stajan, Brouwer, Bennett, Lazar, Bartowski

Bennett is trending towards a D, but the rest are big disappointments that play terrible or make way too much money for their role (and often both).
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:50 PM   #26
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Really solid ratings OP. Only one I really disagreed with was Jagr. Don’t see him much more than a C+ so far in a small sample size.
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Old 11-21-2017, 11:16 PM   #27
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Really solid ratings OP. Only one I really disagreed with was Jagr. Don’t see him much more than a C+ so far in a small sample size.
40 point pace from a 3rd liner despite missing training camp and suffering a groin injury, at a low cap hit, doesn't even get a B? Not even though he's the only bottom 6 forward on our team with a positive corsi?
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Old 11-21-2017, 11:58 PM   #28
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40 point pace from a 3rd liner despite missing training camp and suffering a groin injury, at a low cap hit, doesn't even get a B? Not even though he's the only bottom 6 forward on our team with a positive corsi?
Well I wouldn’t say missing training camp or having an injury should raise his grade. He has 1 goal and 6 points. I’m not calling him a disaster but not willing to say better than average. He has shown flashes for sure but also looked awful.
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Old 11-22-2017, 08:18 AM   #29
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Well I wouldn’t say missing training camp or having an injury should raise his grade. He has 1 goal and 6 points. I’m not calling him a disaster but not willing to say better than average. He has shown flashes for sure but also looked awful.
It should affect expectations and give context. Yeah he's looked off, but there's reasons for it beyond his control, and he's producing despite those adversities.

Plus again 1+5 points with his GP projects to 40 points, so I don't see the problem with that number, unless you want to say "small sample size". Especially when all his points have been well earned.
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Old 11-22-2017, 08:52 AM   #30
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These individual overviews really make it clear how much os the roster is underperforming or just plain dead wood.

In a way it's a good thing, as it shows that there's lots of room still for improvement.
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Old 11-22-2017, 09:14 AM   #31
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Hell of a crowd when you've got a defenceman making 4.6M, on pace to put up 57 points, getting a C-.
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Old 11-22-2017, 09:25 AM   #32
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Tough crowd with Brodie. But he's still on pace for 57 pts, is 3rd in team scoring and 20th in D scoring. Literally anybody would take those stats for a defenceman. And yet some people want him to actually be benched.

I'm in the same camp that he looks off and makes dumb plays that he never used to make. But there's no denying he's producing at a career pace.
He’s turned into a less defensively reliable Phil Housley. He shows up on the score sheets but often has been the worst Flame on the ice. I feel C- is generous and I’m not one to pile on players but he’s been really bad way too often.
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Old 11-22-2017, 09:31 AM   #33
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He’s turned into a less defensively reliable Phil Housley. He shows up on the score sheets but often has been the worst Flame on the ice. I feel C- is generous and I’m not one to pile on players but he’s been really bad way too often.
He's on pace for 57 points, is the #3 d-man on a team that is one win away from taking 1st place in division.

Nobody is perfect. For a #3 d-man, he is outstanding, flaws and all. Can he be better? Yes, he can - and hopefully he'll get back there - but perspective is important.
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Old 11-22-2017, 09:34 AM   #34
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He's on pace for 57 points, is the #3 d-man on a team that is one win away from taking 1st place in division.

Nobody is perfect. For a #3 d-man, he is outstanding, flaws and all. Can he be better? Yes, he can - and hopefully he'll get back there - but perspective is important.
I would much rather his numbers be closer to his career norm if it meant he was more reliable in his own end. Honestly he's the worst defenseman I have seen play this season in the NHL as far as defensive breakdowns go. Everyone is happy because the Flames have put a good run together of late but he needs to be a lot better than he has been in the first 1/4 of the season.
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Old 11-22-2017, 09:37 AM   #35
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Hell of a crowd when you've got a defenceman making 4.6M, on pace to put up 57 points, getting a C-.
I looked at that and went "that sounds low...", but after some consideration really at best I'd give Brodie a C.

He leads the team by far in 5v5 GA (20 GA, next guys have 16). On top of that most of his points come from the PP, and really he's more a part of why the PP has been struggling than why it's been hot so I can't give him much credit for those PP points. Sometimes that team lowest +/- really does indicate a problem.

A top 4 D-man has to be better in defense and more consistent. We also know Brodie CAN be better, so expectations come into play here.

I blame the coaching staff to some extent though. Brodie is IMO playing more minutes and expected to do more than he can handle. He's a fantastic #3 D-man, but he's playing #1 minutes and that's too much for him.
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Old 11-22-2017, 09:37 AM   #36
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I would much rather his numbers be closer to his career norm if it meant he was more reliable in his own end. Honestly he's the worst defenseman I have seen play this season in the NHL as far as defensive breakdowns go.
Which probably speaks to hyper-home-analysis, where we're overly critical of what we see in front of us.

He's made mistakes (you don't have to look back far - first goal against in WSH was him blowing the passing lane he should have had shut down), but he's still very good, but because we know how much better he can be, we're over-critical.

I still absolutely believe that he is a net-benefit to the team.
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Old 11-22-2017, 09:39 AM   #37
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I'm the first to admit Brodie looks way off some games. And it's confusing as hell, because he never used to be like that. Defenceman aren't supposed to get worse defensively in their primes. But at the same time, he's on pace to shatter Hamilton's career high from last season, and barely anyone makes a peep about Brodie's offensive game.

I think a lot of it has to do with the system as well. Brodie used to skate the puck out and make long outlet passes. Now the system is much more short, quick passes and everyone moving up together. It makes for a more cohesive unit, but undoubtedly some players are going to struggle with it.

And I still stand firm in my belief that the day his troubles started was the day he switched sides. Some posters debated with me that it shouldn't be the case. Switching sides should not have that effect. But the proof is in the pudding. The day Brodano got split up and Brodie moved to the other side for the stupid LD/RD thing, was the day his troubles started. We can point at Wideman, we can point at his off-ice situation. But I simply can't ignore what is in front of my eyes; that switch really did a number on his game.

Either way, he gets a pass for me thus far. If you're going to suck at one area of the game, you better be great in another. Unlike Bartowski who sucks all around, at the very least we can say that Brodie's offensive game is on another level. Personally I would prefer the Brodie of old who was excellent defensively, was a lock for 40+ points, and a top pairing player, vs what he is now. But it is what it is.
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Old 11-22-2017, 09:43 AM   #38
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Which probably speaks to hyper-home-analysis, where we're overly critical of what we see in front of us.

He's made mistakes (you don't have to look back far - first goal against in WSH was him blowing the passing lane he should have had shut down), but he's still very good, but because we know how much better he can be, we're over-critical.

I still absolutely believe that he is a net-benefit to the team.
Well I'm not saying the Flames need to trade him or anything. I've seen enough of Brody over the years to know he can be a difference maker for this team but in a 1/4 season grading thread I'm simply calling it as I see it in regards of his play so far. I imagine he will be better and part of that will coincide with Hamonic adjusting/improving or getting paired with Stone instead.
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Old 11-22-2017, 09:55 AM   #39
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I would much rather his numbers be closer to his career norm if it meant he was more reliable in his own end. Honestly he's the worst defenseman I have seen play this season in the NHL as far as defensive breakdowns go. Everyone is happy because the Flames have put a good run together of late but he needs to be a lot better than he has been in the first 1/4 of the season.

1) That's a little extreme don't you think?
2) You haven't watched many Oilers games have you?
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:54 AM   #40
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It should affect expectations and give context. Yeah he's looked off, but there's reasons for it beyond his control, and he's producing despite those adversities.

Plus again 1+5 points with his GP projects to 40 points, so I don't see the problem with that number, unless you want to say "small sample size". Especially when all his points have been well earned.
He has 6 points in 11 games. That would amount to 40 point + pace but he also won't be playing in 82 games. I still think he has looked average on the whole for the games he's played and getting on the ice is also a factor in evaluating a player IMO. So Flames have played 20 games, Jagr has looked OK (sometimes bad, sometimes good) in 11 of those games so I am still at a C+. Interested to see what a game shape and healthy Jagr can do rest of way.
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