Escoba Bistro is Closing Down

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by polak

I never mentioned Ralph bucks. My whole point was that assuming you will always be operating in the lowest taxed jurisdiction in the country isn't a sustainable business model, especially when your economy is commodity based. Maybe it's just me but if I was running a business in Calgary as my sole source of income I'd sure as hell make sure it was sustainable at average Canadian tax levels at minimum.

Just want to point out that this represents a lack of understanding about how market stability is supposed to work. Whatever role government plays in the market, however much or little interference it contributes, the important thing is to try to create stable, predictable conditions so that businesses don't have to guess what structural changes will be made in the future based on political swings. What you're describing, business creating contingencies for potential future government actions that worsen market conditions, is the reason that it's so hard to get investment in unstable countries in Africa or South America, for example. That's the extreme version of what you're talking about here.

In other words, whether you think there should be a carbon tax or the minimum wage should be X or the corporate rate should be Y, or there should be tolls on every major roadway in the city or whatever, one of the goals of each level of government should be to create a stable business environment where businesses do not have to do precisely what you're suggesting every business should do.

[polak]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Just want to point out that this represents a lack of understanding about how market stability is supposed to work. Whatever role government plays in the market, however much or little interference it contributes, the important thing is to try to create stable, predictable conditions so that businesses don't have to guess what structural changes will be made in the future based on political swings. What you're describing, business creating contingencies for potential future government actions that worsen market conditions, is the reason that it's so hard to get investment in unstable countries in Africa or South America, for example. That's the extreme version of what you're talking about here.

In other words, whether you think there should be a carbon tax or the minimum wage should be X or the corporate rate should be Y, or there should be tolls on every major roadway in the city or whatever, one of the goals of each level of government should be to create a stable business environment where businesses do not have to do precisely what you're suggesting every business should do.

Creating a stable business environment? Is that not what the intent of planning for future shortfalls in revenue is?

You're planning ahead for when the money isn't coming in anymore so that you DON'T have to raise taxes when people are hurting in the midst of a downturn?

And again, we're talking about going from THE LOWEST tax to tied for the 2ND LOWEST tax. It's not like the business legislation in Alberta just went bonkers here.... I think it's smart business to give yourself wiggle room for cost increases. Government imposed or otherwise. Planning your business with the absolute best case scenario as the only option is a recipe for disaster. Just ask this guy.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

You just said... look at your post. You've just argued that smart businesses should assume that the current environment, particularly on the tax front, is unstable and susceptible to changing at the whim of some future government, and that it would be prudent to operate your business in such a way as assumes an average rate of tax. That is, allow for contingencies because the system is so volatile that the prospect of sudden change should be taken into account.

Predictability in the tax system is a fundamental goal of tax policy. It's tax policy 101. You've just effectively said that this doesn't really work in Alberta.

If that's what you have to do in order to do business here, if that's just a market reality in this Province that we tell the world we're comfortable with, no one will want to do business here at par with other jurisdictions. And they'll be right not to.

[Zarley]

I'll preface this by stating that I'm in general a supporter of the bike lane network, and as a Beltline dweller I'm a regular user of bike lanes in the inner city.

That bike lane has been a huge negative for the west end of 8th Avenue. I used to have a membership at Anytime Fitness on 8th and the amount of available on-street parking has been cut in half. It was quite easy to nab a spot on the street in the evening after work (prime time for a restaurant) prior to the lanes being implemented. Now it's nearly impossible. It was a major factor in me switching gyms.

When you combine the lack of parking with poor economic conditions and the idiotic incoming minimum wage policy, it's not surprising to see this place fail.

[polak]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

You just said... look at your post. You've just argued that smart businesses should assume that the current environment, particularly on the tax front, is unstable and susceptible to changing at the whim of some future government, and that it would be prudent to operate your business in such a way as assumes an average rate of tax. That is, allow for contingencies because the system is so volatile that the prospect of sudden change should be taken into account.

If that's what you have to do in order to do business here, if that's just a market reality in this Province that we tell the world we're comfortable with, no one will want to do business here at par with other jurisdictions. And they'll be right not to.

Not at the whim of future government. At the whim of the commodity that the entire economy operates on. The commodity that at least 90% of his customer base works for.

The tax increases would have fell in line with that thinking. Clearly if Oil goes down the government will most likely not be able to keep taxes at ridiculously low levels.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Serious question, but how do you know? For a lot of customers, if its difficult to find parking they will go somewhere else.

But I agree, we're going to see a lot more of these stories and its really going to accelerate at the start of next year.

I know when I go downtown for meetings, its a ghost town compared to what it used to be.

I would argue that if a downtown restaurant hinges on people finding parking in the same block then it must not be a very good restaurant. Especially given that tens of thousands of people work in the vicinity within walking distance. State and Main isn't closing it's doors. Neither is Masters. Neither is The Black Cat. Neither are any of the many restaurants on Stephen Avenue where there has never been a big focus on parking.

I don't disagree that we will see more high end restaurants closing their doors in the near future. But to insist that bike lanes have anything to do with it is simply a lazy excuse to get a dig in at said bike lanes.

IMO the biggest reason high end restaurants are going to shut their doors is they don't have the corporate money to pay for all the customer's high priced meals. Escoba's owner referencing a 45% drop in sales due to the downturn? That seems like a no brainer. Referencing the increase in property taxes on top of that? Absolutely. The proposal to increase minimum wage on top of that? It's a stretch, but absolutely.

But bike lanes? Give your head a shake

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Sounds like Florida is more of the place you are looking for. We're in Canada man.



Well considering your first fact is wrong, why even bother addressing it? The minimum wage is 11.20 in AB.

and will be 15 dollars by 2018 - which a dishwasher will get his/her raise - since most of them don't make 15 bucks right now.

So you don't think that a dishwasher makes less than a line cook?
You don't think that a line cook may have gone to SAIT for culinary arts?
Have you ever worked in a restaurant?
Which part is not based in reality?

- but it makes sense that you think that because the NDP policy isn't based in reality and the fact you support it should tell me that you are out of touch with reality

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Zarley

I'll preface this by stating that I'm in general a supporter of the bike lane network, and as a Beltline dweller I'm a regular user of bike lanes in the inner city.

That bike lane has been a huge negative for the west end of 8th Avenue. I used to have a membership at Anytime Fitness on 8th and the amount of available on-street parking has been cut in half. It was quite easy to nab a spot on the street in the evening after work (prime time for a restaurant) prior to the lanes being implemented. Now it's nearly impossible. It was a major factor in me switching gyms.

When you combine the lack of parking with poor economic conditions and the idiotic incoming minimum wage policy, it's not surprising to see this place fail.

There is a 1000 stall parkade less than a block away! There is another parkade literally directly next door to Anytime Fitness. Your decision to stop going to a gym hinged on getting a spot directly in front of it? Need I point out the irony of that?
Seriously...
https://goo.gl/maps/zw3XD7DoK5P2

Oh, but the bike lane took our parking! Come on.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

and will be 15 dollars by 2018 - which a dishwasher will get his/her raise - since most of them don't make 15 bucks right now.

So you don't think that a dishwasher makes less than a line cook?
You don't think that a line cook may have gone to SAIT for culinary arts?
Have you ever worked in a restaurant?
Which part is not based in reality?

- but it makes sense that you think that because the NDP policy isn't based in reality and the fact you support it should tell me that you are out of touch with reality

I've never expressed support for any of this, and we're literally talking about a business closing today. With minimum wage at 11.20.

You literally made a strawman based on an assumption. Your gloomy scenario assumes that everything else in 2018 will be identical to today, except for the 15 minimum wage. I disagree that all other factors will remain the same.

[Ozy_Flame]

I wonder how bad minimum wage will hinder businesses if Oil is back up to $80+ by 2018?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I wonder how bad minimum wage will hinder businesses if Oil is back up to $80+ by 2018?

Wont be an issue because we'll all have our personal Falcors to ride to work and we wont need oil or minimum wage workers.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I was going to say it wouldn't be an issue because Skynet should have everything well in hand by then.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I was going to say it wouldn't be an issue because Skynet should have everything well in hand by then.

Skynet could at least get my order right at the goddamn drive-thru!

However much those people are being paid is too much!

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

There is a 1000 stall parkade less than a block away! There is another parkade literally directly next door to Anytime Fitness. Your decision to stop going to a gym hinged on getting a spot directly in front of it? Need I point out the irony of that?
Seriously...
https://goo.gl/maps/zw3XD7DoK5P2

Oh, but the bike lane took our parking! Come on.

Haha, I knew somebody would make this comment. I like to go to the gym after work (while I work in the core, my job requires use of a car). Sure I could go home and walk or bike to the gym, or pay to park at a nearby parkade but that would be a waste of my time or money. When there are many other gyms around with free parking at the same monthly cost it simply didn't make sense to continue going there.

Originally Posted by shermanator

I would argue that if a downtown restaurant hinges on people finding parking in the same block then it must not be a very good restaurant. Especially given that tens of thousands of people work in the vicinity within walking distance. State and Main isn't closing it's doors. Neither is Masters. Neither is The Black Cat. Neither are any of the many restaurants on Stephen Avenue where there has never been a big focus on parking.

I don't disagree that we will see more high end restaurants closing their doors in the near future. But to insist that bike lanes have anything to do with it is simply a lazy excuse to get a dig in at said bike lanes.

IMO the biggest reason high end restaurants are going to shut their doors is they don't have the corporate money to pay for all the customer's high priced meals. Escoba's owner referencing a 45% drop in sales due to the downturn? That seems like a no brainer. Referencing the increase in property taxes on top of that? Absolutely. The proposal to increase minimum wage on top of that? It's a stretch, but absolutely.

But bike lanes? Give your head a shake

Both your and Fuzz's points are missing the fact that for streetfront retail parking, the perception of parking availability is more important than the availability of parking itself. If drivers can't see parking spaces in front of them, the idea that parking is difficult to come by becomes fact to them, even if there is a massive parkade around the corner. Silly I know, but it's a phenomenon that's been observed for quite some time. The bike lane is absolutely a factor for poor retail fortunes on that stretch of 8th. To deny so is foolish.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Zarley

Haha, I knew somebody would make this comment. I like to go to the gym after work (while I work in the core, my job requires use of a car). Sure I could go home and walk or bike to the gym, or pay to park at a nearby parkade but that would be a waste of my time or money. When there are many other gyms around with free parking at the same monthly cost it simply didn't make sense to continue going there.



Both your and Fuzz's points are missing the fact that for streetfront retail parking, the perception of parking availability is more important than the availability of parking itself. If drivers can't see parking spaces in front of them, the idea that parking is difficult to come by becomes fact to them, even if there is a massive parkade around the corner. Silly I know, but it's a phenomenon that's been observed for quite some time. The bike lane is absolutely a factor for poor retail fortunes on that stretch of 8th. To deny so is foolish.

It's a big reason I don't go to Kensington. I find the parking very annoying and there are places in Beltline that are closer and easier to get parking at.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

It's a big reason I don't go to Kensington. I find the parking very annoying and there are places in Beltline that are closer and easier to get parking at.

Where in Kensington would you go if the parking situation was better? I'm just thinking that there's this giant multi-level parkade next to Julio's and that most things people would want to visit in Kensington are fairly close to that spot.

[NuclearFart]

No surprise this is happening. Go eat at Rouge or Theatro on a Fri/Sat night, those places are dead. It's nice that you don't need reservations at high end restaurants anymore, but I wonder how long they'll last.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Where in Kensington would you go if the parking situation was better? I'm just thinking that there's this giant multi-level parkade next to Julio's and that most things people would want to visit in Kensington are fairly close to that spot.

That's my point. I know the parkade is there but I just don't want to deal with it.

Specifically, my friends keep wanting me to join them at YYC but I refuse to go when I can elsewhere and the parking situation is easier.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

YYC cycle? Which is actually attached to the parkade itself? Yeesh, I get the whole psychological thing about parking being seen, but if being literally 20 steps from your car to the door of the place ain't good enough I don't know what to tell you.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

YYC cycle? Which is actually attached to the parkade itself? Yeesh, I get the whole psychological thing about parking being seen, but if being literally 20 steps from your car to the door of the place ain't good enough I don't know what to tell you.

Don't you have to pay?

To be clear, I live on the southside of the river so there are other options.