2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

BAD:
- Brouwer
- Neal
- Raymond

GOOD:
- Ryan
- Engelland
- Frolik
- Markstrom

MARGINAL:
- Hiller
- Czarnik
- Tanev?

It's not great, but it is also not that bad, either. What did I miss? (You will notice I am counting only multi-year deals )

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

This sorting is incredibly generous to Brad

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I'd rather keep Mony than Johnny. If CLB is willing to trade Johnny for Dubois and deplete their centre stock then we should jump at it.

How would this be a good move? I understand that the Flames need better play from their centers, but the problem in my opinion isn't so much about the quantity as it is about the quality. Playing PLD, Monahan, Lindholm, Backlund 15 minutes a night without any winger depth doesn't seem ideal to me.

Instead, playing your 3 top centers 16-18 minutes paired with an elite winger is much better. Gaudreau was 4th in Hart Trophy voting less than 2 years ago and has been integral to the team's success since he arrived. Without him, I don't think the Flames even make the playoffs.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by neo45

This sorting is incredibly generous to Brad

Why is that?

Brouwer and Raymond were never goof flames and had to be bought out. Neal was traded for a guy that was regarded as the worst contract in the league and all the flames got was 500k cap space and a conditional 3rd.

Derek Ryan has been a good player for this team for 2 years and actually was very very good in year 1. When the top line cooled off after the all star break the Mangipane-Ryan-Hathaway line was huge. Engellend was a pleasant surprise who played a key role on a young team and stepped up when Gio went down in his first year with the team. Frolik was a top 6 forward and solid player during most of his contract and got the Flames an asset in his last year. Markstrom is the 9th highest cap hit at his position and was just voted 4th best goalie last season and 5th best in a recent Athletic poll of GM’s.

Czarnik came very cheap and could have most of his cap hit buried if he wasn’t on the main roster. Hiller was absolutely worth the money and then some in year 1 but then was absolutely terrible in year 2. Tanev remains to be seen but the deal feels 1-2 years too long.

List looks right to me

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

How would this be a good move? I understand that the Flames need better play from their centers, but the problem in my opinion isn't so much about the quantity as it is about the quality. Playing PLD, Monahan, Lindholm, Backlund 15 minutes a night without any winger depth doesn't seem ideal to me.

Instead, playing your 3 top centers 16-18 minutes paired with an elite winger is much better. Gaudreau was 4th in Hart Trophy voting less than 2 years ago and has been integral to the team's success since he arrived. Without him, I don't think the Flames even make the playoffs.

Way harder to find a dominant centre than an offensive dynamo on the wing.

In an ideal world you could even consider flipping Monahan in a separate trade for a winger (Perhaps there could be something around Monahan-Huberdeau, who was rumored to be looking for a move last season?)

Even without that the problem you mention is easily solved by keeping Lindy on the wing, where he had his career best season.
Just an example:
Tkachuk-PLD-Lindy
Mangiapane-Monahan-Dube
Bennett-Backlund-Pelletier

IMO that is superior to the current core with Gaudreau, or to a Monahan-less team subbing in PLD.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by neo45

This sorting is incredibly generous to Brad

Agreed. As hit and miss as Brad's UFA signings have been. I haven't been too impressed with his trades either.

Bollig, Elliott, Hamonic, Lack, Lazar, Shinkaruk, Stone, Smith, losing Byron, Kulak for nothing. Seems like Treliving's player evaluation is the weakest aspect of his otherwise strong resume.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Agreed. As hit and miss as Brad's UFA signings have been. I haven't been too impressed with his trades either.

Bollig, Elliott, Hamonic, Lack, Lazar, Shinkaruk, Stone, Smith, losing Byron, Kulak for nothing. Seems like Treliving's player evaluation is the weakest aspect of his otherwise strong resume.

Agree with Bollig, Elliott, Hamonic, Lazar.

3rd rounder for Smith was a decent deal he was solid in year one and was good in the playoffs in year 2 not a ton for a stop gap starter.

Stone solidified the D in 2017 (team won 10 straight after he was acquired) for a 3rd rounder. Re-signing him was a mistake as the contract proved to be bad and it cost an extra 5th. Should have let him walk

Shinkaruk for Granlund is a nothing trade. Lack for Kanzig and a 6th? Come on.

Not sure where Kulak would have fit on this team but Byron would have been nice to keep around (especially since the waived him to keep 3 awful goalies)

What about Sven for Rasmus or picks for Hamilton or Hamilton/Ferland/Fox for Lindholm/Hanifin?

You list a bunch of low end deals that are basically irrelevant. Why not add Corbin Knight for Drew Shore while your at it

[ComixZone]

I think the conversation of is Brad a good GM or a bad GM is pretty much decided at this point.

He's an average GM...which means hey, he's one of the best we've ever had.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Agreed. As hit and miss as Brad's UFA signings have been. I haven't been too impressed with his trades either.

Bollig, Elliott, Hamonic, Lack, Lazar, Shinkaruk, Stone, Smith, losing Byron, Kulak for nothing. Seems like Treliving's player evaluation is the weakest aspect of his otherwise strong resume.

Bollig for a 3rd was meh

Elliott, the Flames needed a goalie and it was not a bad gamble. Hindsight is easy but he led the Blues to WCF and had a good record the year before. He absolutely imploded in the playoffs for the Flames though. I am glad Tre didn't double down on the trade by signing him.

Hamonic trade sucked. Everyone will give you that one.

Lack was traded for a 6th or something. Whatever they need a warm body in net.

Lazar trade sucked as well.

Shinkaruk for Granlund is a whole lot of meh and not a loss. Both in the KHL. A wash.

Stone for a 3rd was okay.

Smith again they needed a goalie and he was actually good during his short playoff run.

Byron they did not expect to get claimed and that sucked.

Kulak would still be bouncing around the depth chart here and the Flames did him a favour.



I really only think the Hamonic and Lazar trades were straight garbage. More so the Lazar one because he sucked when he was traded for. Hamonic was supposed to be good.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I think the conversation of is Brad a good GM or a bad GM is pretty much decided at this point.

He's an average GM...which means hey, he's one of the best we've ever had.

He is the best GM in Canada currently.

People need to stop thinking Calgary is New York. We are a below average market in almost every sense except fan passion.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Agree with Bollig, Elliott, Hamonic, Lazar.

3rd rounder for Smith was a decent deal he was solid in year one and was good in the playoffs in year 2 not a ton for a stop gap starter.

Stone solidified the D in 2017 (team won 10 straight after he was acquired) for a 3rd rounder. Re-signing him was a mistake as the contract proved to be bad and it cost an extra 5th. Should have let him walk

Shinkaruk for Granlund is a nothing trade. Lack for Kanzig and a 6th? Come on.

Not sure where Kulak would have fit on this team but Byron would have been nice to keep around (especially since the waived him to keep 3 awful goalies)

What about Sven for Rasmus or picks for Hamilton or Hamilton/Ferland/Fox for Lindholm/Hanifin?

You list a bunch of low end deals that are basically irrelevant. Why not add Corbin Knight for Drew Shore while your at it

Well, many already know my feelings on Hanifin. So that trade I could list, but I like Lindholm so overall, I’m ok with it.

But ultimately, the question more so is why so many misses? Is it his scouting team? is it his own personal talent evaluation? The amateur scouts do a fabulous job of scouting, but the pro scouts consistently whiff in the UFA and trade fronts.

Without the great job of Tod Button and co, I don’t think this team would be nearly as competitive today. I mean $14 million on Troy Brouwer, Michael Stone and James Neal? Yuck. Just not good enough.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Well, many already know my feelings on Hanifin. So that trade I could list, but I like Lindholm so overall, I’m ok with it.

But ultimately, the question more so is why so many misses? Is it his scouting team? is it his own personal talent evaluation? The amateur scouts do a fabulous job of scouting, but the pro scouts consistently whiff in the UFA and trade fronts.

Without the great job of Tod Button and co, I don’t think this team would be nearly as competitive today. I mean $14 million on Troy Brouwer, Michael Stone and James Neal? Yuck. Just not good enough.

When talking about UFA’s again we are far from a desirable destination. I think there are some that post on here that think Calgary is far more desirable than the actual players.

Some of the deals you mention as misses were not really misses though and more of a trash for trash trade.

Amateur scouting and good drafting is how to build a team and very few teams are built through trade and free agency. Name a team that is good that doesn’t have good home grown talent?

I definitely think part of it is ownership pushing to win as soon as possible which leads to shortcuts. Maybe they do need to revamp the pro scouting ranks?

[Enoch Root]

Regarding his trade record, the larger trades have been far more successful than the smaller ones, which is the way you want it.

Minor player trades like Lazar and Elliott are largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Every team has a list of dead ends in their closet. Most players peter out, and only a few experience the luxury of long, successful careers. So there are always going to be more duds than hits.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

When talking about UFA’s again we are far from a desirable destination. I think there are some that post on here that think Calgary is far more desirable than the actual players.

Some of the deals you mention as misses were not really misses though and more of a trash for trash trade.

Amateur scouting and good drafting is how to build a team and very few teams are built through trade and free agency. Name a team that is good that doesn’t have good home grown talent?

I definitely think part of it is ownership pushing to win as soon as possible which leads to shortcuts. Maybe they do need to revamp the pro scouting ranks?

Yeah but we haven’t heard Treliving fail to sign his UFA targets too often; and even if he does fail, not signing a guy is better than signing the wrong guy. Treliving makes a big dent in the UFA market a lot of years and I’d say there have been more really bad than home runs. Actually, I don’t think there is a home run yet. Perhaps Markstrom has that potential, but that remains to be seen.

I agree that scouting and drafting is the premier method of building a winning team. But lets be fair to the amateur scouts here, Treliving has had a history of trading draft picks, so that has perhaps hindered Button’s ability to build a better crop of young players.

Not to say that this would have happened. But I do sometimes imagine if the Flames had not traded for that sieve in Brian Elliott and instead had drafted Alex Debrincat instead, imagine how much better the Flames could be right now. Seems like the type of player Tod Button targets. Undersized and highly skilled. Fun to think about some of the coulds and maybes sometimes.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Regarding his trade record, the larger trades have been far more successful than the smaller ones, which is the way you want it.

Minor player trades like Lazar and Elliott are largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Every team has a list of dead ends in their closet. Most players peter out, and only a few experience the luxury of long, successful careers. So there are always going to be more duds than hits.

I disagree. I won’t say that GMs should always bat a thousand. But I think our fanbase needs to collectively raise our standards here. If we truly want to challenge for the Stanley Cup, then we have to keep up with the rest of the elite class.

No more mediocrity. 28/30 first round exits or no playoffs is simply unacceptable.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Regarding his trade record, the larger trades have been far more successful than the smaller ones, which is the way you want it.

Minor player trades like Lazar and Elliott are largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Every team has a list of dead ends in their closet. Most players peter out, and only a few experience the luxury of long, successful careers. So there are always going to be more duds than hits.

Well after the Carolina trade, the biggest trade Treliving made in terms of assets given up is the Hamonic trade. That one was not what I’d call successful.

The Carolina trade was good. For both teams as it turns out.

Treliving’s record after more than 6 years can pretty much be summarized by the results of the team IMO.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well after the Carolina trade, the biggest trade Treliving made in terms of assets given up is the Hamonic trade. That one was not what I’d call successful.

The Carolina trade was good. For both teams as it turns out.

Treliving’s record after more than 6 years can pretty much be summarized by the results of the team IMO.

He takes a team over 1 year into a rebuild that missed the playoffs 6 straight years. They make the playoffs 4 times in 6 seasons and win a division banner. They are the only Canadian team to have made the playoffs in consecutive seasons and are poised to challenge for the division this year.

Not the greatest but not as bad as some are saying and the team is far from over the hill. They can roll out a top 6 of all players 27 or younger and 3 of their top 5 D are 22-24 years old. They have some nice prospects and really only have one brutal contract.

I might be coming across as a homer these past few days and maybe that is because I typically start a new year with a refreshed optimistic outlook on things? It is also getting tiring reading a bunch of people bitch about being mediocre and crappy before the season has even started? Like can’t we wait until there is a losing streak to pile on the team? Maybe I will join in at that time but for now I prefer to look on the bright side. Personally I think this team has added the one piece that can make them elite for next couple of years in Markstrom. Looking forward to watching what should be a really fun and unique season

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

He takes a team over 1 year into a rebuild that missed the playoffs 6 straight years. They make the playoffs 4 times in 6 seasons and win a division banner. They are the only Canadian team to have made the playoffs in consecutive seasons and are poised to challenge for the division this year.

Not the greatest but not as bad as some are saying and the team is far from over the hill. They can roll out a top 6 of all players 27 or younger and 3 of their top 5 D are 22-24 years old. They have some nice prospects and really only have one brutal contract.

I might be coming across as a homer these past few days and maybe that is because I typically start a new year with a refreshed optimistic outlook on things? It is also getting tiring reading a bunch of people bitch about being mediocre and crappy before the season has even started? Like can’t we wait until there is a losing streak to pile on the team? Maybe I will join in at that time but for now I prefer to look on the bright side. Personally I think this team has added the one piece that can make them elite for next couple of years in Markstrom. Looking forward to watching what should be a really fun and unique season

I don’t really see it that differently. Fairly average performance for a GM who started off, IMO, with a relatively good situation as he didn't have to spend any time tearing down or waiting out bad contracts.

Let’s see how the team does. Still lots of time for history to show Treliving as a solid GM. I wouldn’t bury, or praise him, as we sit here today but I think it’s ok to be realistic in assessing what he has and hasn’t done.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

He is the best GM in Canada currently.

People need to stop thinking Calgary is New York. We are a below average market in almost every sense except fan passion.

Well then his team should definitely make the third round this year then. I would personally take at least two GM’s over him (Chevaldayoff and Benning) but we will see what happens this year. The beauty of this year is we can actually see which GM is the best in Canada, because with the exception of Holland they have all been with their orgs for an extended period of time and will have to play each other to make the third round.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Well then his team should definitely make the third round this year then. I would personally take at least two GM’s over him (Chevaldayoff and Benning) but we will see what happens this year. The beauty of this year is we can actually see which GM is the best in Canada, because with the exception of Holland they have all been with their orgs for an extended period of time and will have to play each other to make the third round.

The Jets are already in decline, without having accomplished anything.

Benning has done the easy part: move from lousy to mediocre - every GM (EDM notwithstanding) can do this, as Treliving did - the hard part is taking the next step and making the team a contender. Treliving is on the doorstep of doing this, the Canucks are a ways away yet.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The Jets are already in decline, without having accomplished anything.

Benning has done the easy part: move from lousy to mediocre - every GM (EDM notwithstanding) can do this, as Treliving did - the hard part is taking the next step and making the team a contender. Treliving is on the doorstep of doing this, the Canucks are a ways away yet.

Well Treliving inherited mediocre, his most successful team was his first team led deep into the playoffs (by our standards) by the veteran efforts of Hudler, Wideman and Russell, along with contributions from young players like Johnny and Monahan. Since then we have been trying to get back to the second round but this year could be the year, the 7th year is often the breakthrough year.

The Jets did make the third round that one year but not much other than that.