To me the reason why the Next Gen movies became worse then the series was that Picard was turned not only into Jean Luc Picard action man, but his actions really reduced the nature of the usefullness of the rest of the bridge crews except for Data, and it became horribly apparent in First Contact, Insurrection and Nemisis
That's true of most TOS movies as well. Bad writers just can't write an ensemble movie. Everything became the big three with Kirk as the star. The rest barely got in a few lines here or there and when they showed up, it was for comic relief.
I have no desire to rewatch any Star Trek movie again at this point, growing up just makes me realized they are incredibly flawed and haven't aged well.
I think one ought to be fair and admit that it's hard to write a story where you get seven (or more) main characters heavily involved. Some have to be set in the background. Somebody's got to get fewer lines than the others. It's next to impossible to keep them all fully engaged.
The Voyage Home almost certainly found the best compromise, balancing moments of comic relief with important plot beats that keep the narrative moving forward. All the characters had tasks to do, each of those tasks being important to the execution of the overarching plan. Kirk and Spock looked for the whales, McCoy and Scotty figured out a way to acquire the materials to house the whales, Sulu figured out a way to install said materials, and Uhura and Chekov figured out where to get the "high-energy photons" necessary to "recrystallize the dilithium" in the Klingon ship's engines and get them home. (Okay, that last one was a bit silly...)
The Undiscovered Country was also pretty good. Kirk and McCoy spend much of the movie in captivity and we follow how they make their escape, Spock runs the investigation on Enterprise after deliberation with Scotty, Uhura and Chekov (and Valeris), Chekov and Valeris actually do most of the investigative work, Scotty ultimately finds the discarded uniforms they were looking for, and in the climactic battle above Khitomer it's Uhura who ultimately figures out a practical way to destroy the cloaked Bird of Prey.
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List all ST:V episodes where the ship is called "The Voyager".
In the early to mid 2000s the novel verse made the change and dropped the "the" and it was admittedly awkward to read "Defiant" instead of "The Defiant." It was actually more than awkward, it was jarring and knocked you out of the story for a split second. So in that sense it was annoying.
I can't remember specifically when it started, or the reason. The DS9 Relaunch? The post-Nemesis TNG relaunch series? Somewhere around there.
Ah, the one where they tried to create a Harvey Mudd character. They rename the first and second season episodes like “Friends” where it’s a nod to some on-the-nose morality story or where they tried to replicate a TOS story.
Ah, the one where they tried to create a Harvey Mudd character. They rename the first and second season episodes like “Friends” where it’s a nod to some on-the-nose morality story or where they tried to replicate a TOS story.
Its probably one of the Top S2 episodes because Okona is great.
Wesley has no idea whats going on and doesnt understand that 'The Amazing' Okona is slipping his 'Next Generation' to every woman on the ship, Worf is angry, Picard thinks this is ridiculous and not his problem and Riker thinks the whole thing is hilarious just short of a wink and a nudge and maybe a high-five.
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I think one ought to be fair and admit that it's hard to write a story where you get seven (or more) main characters heavily involved. Some have to be set in the background. Somebody's got to get fewer lines than the others. It's next to impossible to keep them all fully engaged.
The Voyage Home almost certainly found the best compromise, balancing moments of comic relief with important plot beats that keep the narrative moving forward. All the characters had tasks to do, each of those tasks being important to the execution of the overarching plan. Kirk and Spock looked for the whales, McCoy and Scotty figured out a way to acquire the materials to house the whales, Sulu figured out a way to install said materials, and Uhura and Chekov figured out where to get the "high-energy photons" necessary to "recrystallize the dilithium" in the Klingon ship's engines and get them home. (Okay, that last one was a bit silly...)
The Undiscovered Country was also pretty good. Kirk and McCoy spend much of the movie in captivity and we follow how they make their escape, Spock runs the investigation on Enterprise after deliberation with Scotty, Uhura and Chekov (and Valeris), Chekov and Valeris actually do most of the investigative work, Scotty ultimately finds the discarded uniforms they were looking for, and in the climactic battle above Khitomer it's Uhura who ultimately figures out a practical way to destroy the cloaked Bird of Prey.
Of all the movies, Star Trek Beyond might be the best to actually execute on the ensemble idea and making the whole crew interesting and useful.
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I just finished S2. Still weak (Pulaski) but this was where the poker game started, and the Sherlock cosplay. Started exploring Klingon Culture (Riker as the exchange officer), the introduction of the Borg (fantastic episode), K'ehleyr (who unfortunately led to Alexander).
But a lot of turkeys still. The Royale, The Dauphin, Shades of Grey (a clip show about the most uninteresting character as the last episode of the season), The Icarus Factor, the Child...
I just finished S2. Still weak (Pulaski) but this was where the poker game started, and the Sherlock cosplay. Started exploring Klingon Culture (Riker as the exchange officer), the introduction of the Borg (fantastic episode), K'ehleyr (who unfortunately led to Alexander).
But a lot of turkeys still. The Royale, The Dauphin, Shades of Grey (a clip show about the most uninteresting character as the last episode of the season), The Icarus Factor, the Child...
I've been going through season 3 on my bike now and the quality increase is startling. Still starts a little slow but around 1/4 of the way in it's just banger after banger. Even the less good episodes would've been the best episodes of S1 or 2.
Then you rattle off Ensigns of Command, Survivors and Who Watches the Watchers as episodes 2, 3 and 4. The bonding is a bit of a weaker episode but it's a great emotional exploration of how family life is affected by day-to-day ship life. After that you don't have another weak episode in my opinion until the Pen-ultimate episode in Transfiguration
That's true of most TOS movies as well. Bad writers just can't write an ensemble movie. Everything became the big three with Kirk as the star. The rest barely got in a few lines here or there and when they showed up, it was for comic relief.
I have no desire to rewatch any Star Trek movie again at this point, growing up just makes me realized they are incredibly flawed and haven't aged well.
TBF though, TOS was always about the big three, was it not? Weren't the the only people in the credits at first?
I think one ought to be fair and admit that it's hard to write a story where you get seven (or more) main characters heavily involved. Some have to be set in the background. Somebody's got to get fewer lines than the others. It's next to impossible to keep them all fully engaged.
Not Trek, but I've been rewatching Stranger Things, and I can't think of a show that's been better at giving all the cast/characters lots of screen time to develop. Especially for the amount of episodes they've done each season.
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It’s a prequel to the prequel, itself a sequel to another prequel.
Quote:
So that we’re clear, Untitled Star Trek Origin Story will serve as a prequel to the 2009 origin story and a sequel to 2001’s origin story, Enterprise. It will likely be set before Discovery, which was conceived as a prequel to Star Trek (1966) and Strange New Worlds, which is a prequel to Star Trek (1966).
Again, I'm not believing anything about any Star Trek movie until it's in front of a camera. There must've been close to a dozen different movies in various states of development in the last decade that have never got past this "There's a director and writer attached, here's a vague plot detail!" phase. Just a month ago they were talking about Star Trek 4 in the Kelvin-verse that we haven't heard any more on yet either.
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TBF though, TOS was always about the big three, was it not? Weren't the the only people in the credits at first?
<trivia nerd>
At first it was only Shatner and Nimoy who received credits in the opening titles. DeForest Kelley's credit as Dr. McCoy was added in the second season.
</trivia nerd>
But yeah, James Doohan, Nichelle Nichols, George Takei and Walter Koenig's credits only appeared at the end, under a "featuring" or "with" title card and listed among the episode's guest performers. And they didn't get credit in episodes they didn't appear in. (Nor did Kelley in the handful of first-season episodes he didn't appear in.) Doohan and Nichols were in most of them save about 10-15, Takei missed a bunch in the second season due to leaving to film The Green Berets, and Koenig obviously didn't join the cast until the second season but was only in about 3/4 of the episodes from that point onward. Majel Barrett received the same level of credit for her performances as Chapel (for a couple dozen episodes), as did Grace Lee Whitney in the few episodes she appeared in at the beginning of the series (before her character was unceremoniously written out of the show).
We tend to remember the show being more of an ensemble cast—and ultimately it was, I think—but Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley were the only "starring" regulars.
Last edited by timun; 04-12-2024 at 11:00 AM.
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At first it was only Shatner and Nimoy who received credits in the opening titles. DeForest Kelley's credit as Dr. McCoy was added in the second season.
</trivia nerd>
But yeah, James Doohan, Nichelle Nichols, George Takei and Walter Koenig's credits only appeared at the end, under a "featuring" or "with" title card and listed among the episode's guest performers. And they didn't get credit in episodes they didn't appear in. (Nor did Kelley in the handful of first-season episodes he didn't appear in.) Doohan and Nichols were in most of them save about 10-15, Takei missed a bunch in the second season due to leaving to film The Green Berets, and Koenig obviously didn't join the cast until the second season but was only in about 3/4 of the episodes from that point onward. Majel Barrett received the same level of credit for her performances as Chapel (for a couple dozen episodes), as did Grace Lee Whitney in the few episodes she appeared in at the beginning of the series (before her character was unceremoniously written out of the show).
We tend to remember the show being more of an ensemble cast—and ultimately it was, I think—but Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley were the only "starring" regulars.
It's really interesting too that in Season 1 a lot of promo images had Spock, Kirk, and Rand together.
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Thats why Flames fans make ideal Star Trek fans. We've really been taught to embrace the self-loathing and extreme criticism.
