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Old 06-26-2019, 11:53 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Nelson View Post
Forwards - 49.603333

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk (7*8.5) - Backlund - Bennett (2*2.5)
Mangiapane (1*1) - Ryan - Neal
Dube - Jankowski - Czarnik
Hathaway (2*1) - Quine (2*0.7)

Defencemen - 26.088375

Giordano - Brodie
Hanifin - Hamonic
Valimaki - Andersson
Kylington - Stone

Goalies - 5

Rittich (3*3)
Talbot (1*2)

Buyout - 1.5

Total - $82.19M

So, the Flames would still have to drop a little cash. I imagine that will come by either trading Brodie, promoting Andersson to the top pair, and having Stone play with Valimaki. Alternatively, the Flames could attach a/the draft pick they get from trading Frolik and get rid of Stone (a non cap team may be willing to pay a very small price for him?).
You have the Flames carrying 14 forwards, 8 defencemen and 2 goalies? Cut it down to 13 forwards, 7 defencemen, and the 2 goalies.
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Old 06-26-2019, 11:56 AM   #42
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Buying out Stone if we need to isn't a bad idea either.
Pending you literally cant find anyone to dump the $ on.
Quite a few teams are going to need contracts to hit the minimum at this point.

Stone probably has value with salary retained. He’d be a decent option for a lot of teams at $1.75 million. Maybe not more than a late round pick, but at least it’s a bit more palatable than another buyout on the books.
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Old 06-26-2019, 11:59 AM   #43
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I seriously doubt it. It seems to me that posters here in general are realistic about the situation and understand that this would be a cap dump.

I still bet he is worth a third.
Poison told me he is worth multiple 1st rounders.
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Old 06-26-2019, 11:59 AM   #44
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Frolik has posted 40+ points once as a Flame. There are two options: either the Flames promote Dillon Dube, Sam Bennett, or Andrew Mangiapane into his role; or, they decide to sign a cheap UFA option for a very short term to replace him, somebody like Ryan Hartman or Brandon Pirri.
The Flames don't sign cheap UFA's. They only pay premiums.
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:00 PM   #45
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Frolik is underrated to me. I understand the likely highest price is a 3rd, in which case I hold on to him. There's like a 0.1% chance a 2nd would be offered, where I'd take that, but otherwise I think he's more valuable to our cup contending team than a 3rd round pick.

I highly doubt Frolik is a Flame next season however I feel like he's more useful to our team than a 3rd rounder, considering we're in cup contention.
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:03 PM   #46
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The Flames don't sign cheap UFA's. They only pay premiums.
Very untrue. The Flames signed Czarnik to a cheap two-year deal; they signed Versteeg to a cheap one-year deal (which was very successful); they signed Jagr to a cheap one-year deal (which was unsuccessful but could have gone either way); and they signed Chad Johnson to a cheap one-year deal.

There is plenty of precedent suggesting that the Flames could get a useful, cheap utility player to replace Frolik. I think Pirri could be an ideal target.
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:06 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by savardandjokinen View Post
Frolik is underrated to me. I understand the likely highest price is a 3rd, in which case I hold on to him. There's like a 0.1% chance a 2nd would be offered, where I'd take that, but otherwise I think he's more valuable to our cup contending team than a 3rd round pick.

I highly doubt Frolik is a Flame next season however I feel like he's more useful to our team than a 3rd rounder, considering we're in cup contention.
If some team is offering a 3rd for Frolik, Tre needs to take that and run. Frolik is a useful player, but not at that price. Flames are better served both capwise and development wise to replace him with someone from their system.
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:07 PM   #48
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You have the Flames carrying 14 forwards, 8 defencemen and 2 goalies? Cut it down to 13 forwards, 7 defencemen, and the 2 goalies.
Oops.
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:09 PM   #49
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Poison told me he is worth multiple 1st rounders.
Well, there is always that one guy.
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:11 PM   #50
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I'm not sure we have cap issues, but if we need a cap dump, Michael Stone who was never a good signing, and Neal should go before Frolik.
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:14 PM   #51
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I'm not sure we have cap issues, but if we need a cap dump, Michael Stone who was never a good signing, and Neal should go before Frolik.
Yeah, that would be ideal. I suspect it is difficult to pull off.
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:26 PM   #52
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Any bottom feeder should be trying to acquire Frolik.

He's going to be worth a 2nd rounder at the trade deadline.
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:28 PM   #53
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Take a 7th for him !
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:31 PM   #54
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Similar situation with Glencross except he went at the deadline and Frolik will likely move before the season starts but Glencross brought back a 2nd and 3rd.. both coming off similar point totals the year previous.

I wouldn't be shocked to pick up a 3rd for Frolik.
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:48 PM   #55
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Similar situation with Glencross except he went at the deadline and Frolik will likely move before the season starts but Glencross brought back a 2nd and 3rd.. both coming off similar point totals the year previous.

I wouldn't be shocked to pick up a 3rd for Frolik.
Muxh different scenario.

Glencross was in the final year of his deal, with only weeks left on his contract. The acquiring team was adding him specifically for a few months service max. His cap hit was basically a non factor due to the limited time left in the season, and the acquiring team added him specifically for short term help. They were willing to pay the short term price because they were looking for a playoff advantage.

The teams in the market for frolik right now are almost certainly non-contenders looking to fill out their rosters with a player who could be moved again with 6-8 months. They have no desperation to compete so the prices they will be willing to pay will be lower.

Knowing the selling team is relatively desperate to move that player makes the return even less valuable as the buyer is controlling most of the leverage.

If the devils miss out on frolik, from their perspective it's 'so what'.

They will likely have to be enticed somewhat, and that enticement comes in the form of a relatively low price for an asset they will likely be able to sell for a higher price than what they paid if they are willing to hold it for 6 months.
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:48 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Nelson View Post
At this point, I still think Frolik is an effective player. However, I think Bennett has become a very effective player. Bennett's goals and assists haven't improved my leaps and bounds, but his ability to help the Flames exit the defensive zone with possession, enter the offensive zone with possession, and control shots for and against has improved significantly. I would argue he's now a better "two-way" winger than Frolik is. If not, its become a lot closer than it used to be.

Here's my evidence: https://public.tableau.com/shared/R4...viz_share_link.

I'm saying this because I want Bennett to move up the lineup and begin playing on the 1st line or 2nd line so that he can get more ice time. He's just gotten really good. As such, I see the top 6 forwards on this team, in no particular order, as:

Gaudreau
Monahan
Lindholm
Tkachuk
Backlund
Bennett

This means I don't think Frolik should be getting top 6 minutes anymore. As such, I think Frolik may have become an overly expensive luxury in the current financial context.

We can have the lines look like this:

Forwards - 49.603333

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk (7*8.5) - Backlund - Bennett (2*2.5)
Mangiapane (1*1) - Ryan - Neal
Dube - Jankowski - Czarnik
Hathaway (2*1) - Quine (2*0.7)

Defencemen - 26.088375

Giordano - Brodie
Hanifin - Hamonic
Valimaki - Andersson
Kylington - Stone

Goalies - 5

Rittich (3*3)
Talbot (1*2)

Buyout - 1.5

Total - $82.19M

So, the Flames would still have to drop a little cash. I imagine that will come by either trading Brodie, promoting Andersson to the top pair, and having Stone play with Valimaki. Alternatively, the Flames could attach a/the draft pick they get from trading Frolik and get rid of Stone (a non cap team may be willing to pay a very small price for him?).
My goodness the legend of Sam Bennett now has him as a better two way forward than Micheal Frolik?

Also I'm sick of Bennett apologists acting like he has crappy linemates as to the reason why he cannot do anything. The line of Tkachuk-Backlund-Bennett was the 4th most used line combo at even strength for the Flames last season.

17.74% EV GAUDREAU,JOHNNY - LINDHOLM,ELIAS - MONAHAN,SEAN
9.58% EV BACKLUND,MIKAEL - FROLIK,MICHAEL - TKACHUK,MATTHEW
4.99% EV HATHAWAY,GARNET - MANGIAPANE,ANDREW - RYAN,DEREK
4.26% EV BACKLUND,MIKAEL - BENNETT,SAM - TKACHUK,MATTHEW
3.45% EV BENNETT,SAM - JANKOWSKI,MARK - NEAL,JAMES
2.15% EV BENNETT,SAM - CZARNIK,AUSTIN - JANKOWSKI,MARK
1.72% EV GAUDREAU,JOHNNY - MONAHAN,SEAN - TKACHUK,MATTHEW
1.56% EV BACKLUND,MIKAEL - CZARNIK,AUSTIN - TKACHUK,MATTHEW
1.50% EV BACKLUND,MIKAEL - NEAL,JAMES - TKACHUK,MATTHEW

Further to that, Sam Bennetts most frequent linemates last season were Tkachuk and Backlund.

21.76% EV BACKLUND,MIKAEL - BENNETT,SAM - TKACHUK,MATTHEW
17.60% EV BENNETT,SAM - JANKOWSKI,MARK - NEAL,JAMES
10.97% EV BENNETT,SAM - CZARNIK,AUSTIN - JANKOWSKI,MARK
4.01% EV BENNETT,SAM - NEAL,JAMES - RYAN,DEREK
3.47% EV BENNETT,SAM - GAUDREAU,JOHNNY - MONAHAN,SEAN
3.25% EV BENNETT,SAM - FROLIK,MICHAEL - RYAN,DEREK
3.04% EV BACKLUND,MIKAEL - BENNETT,SAM - NEAL,JAMES

I understand Frolik isn't happy and has asked to be moved. I'm just a little shocked at how underrated Frolik is being sold around here. This team isnt as good with him subtracted from the roster. Not only does he check the top opposing lines, he still manufactures points and is a big part of our PK. Not to mention the chemistry he has continually shown with Tkachuk and Backlund. He will be missed in many ways.
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Old 06-26-2019, 01:06 PM   #57
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Oh goody. Another conversation that starts with one player and ends in Sam Bennett.
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Old 06-26-2019, 01:11 PM   #58
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I understand Frolik isn't happy and has asked to be moved. I'm just a little shocked at how underrated Frolik is being sold around here. This team isnt as good with him subtracted from the roster. Not only does he check the top opposing lines, he still manufactures points and is a big part of our PK. Not to mention the chemistry he has continually shown with Tkachuk and Backlund. He will be missed in many ways.
Yeah - the fan base is underrating both Frolik and Brodie's contributions IMO.

The team is not as good or deep without those two on the roster next season.

However the reason you move Frolik instead of Bennett is because Bennett's likely $2M cheaper next year, has multiple years of control left, and is 8 years younger than Frolik. Not because Bennett is head and shoulders better than Frolik.
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Old 06-26-2019, 01:20 PM   #59
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Old 06-26-2019, 01:54 PM   #60
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You have the Flames carrying 14 forwards, 8 defencemen and 2 goalies? Cut it down to 13 forwards, 7 defencemen, and the 2 goalies.
Split the difference. The roster size limit is 23, and that seems to be what most teams carry.
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