CWHL to discontinue operations

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I'm not sure this is true (well the unmarketable/unprofitable stuff, the rest is just classic drive-by which doesn't seem to matter to college sports in the US or junior hockey in Canada which clearly isn't top level either). Canada and the US national teams play each other and can draw crowds (they sold out their game in London I believe) which was just a random game, not part of any competition. Those games can also get reasonable tv ratings.

Perhaps you just do a 4 team league so you have just the elite players and the teams all have 4-5 players everyone knows.

Not sure what part you are saying "isn't true". In Calgary are ther are 20 or so other hockey teams (Flames, Hitmen, Dino's, Cougars, SAIT, Mustnags, Canucks, JR B, AMHL) you could watch which are better hockey then the Inferno. To say it is such good hockey (which you didn't but so many casual hockey fans do) is completely false. The Canada/ USA games, which are pretty good hockey, are NOT the same as a 6 team league (which is competing for players with another league) when it comes to competition level, skill and marketability.

Now in a less politically correct society they could market the attractive ladies, and play full contact hockey, add pyro, add gimmicks and over the top announcers. Like the WWE does with their females. Talk is the ladies triple threat match will be headlining Wrestlemania.

For those wanting to inspire young hockey players, the Women's World Championships are starting soon and TSN will be broadcasting the games, set you PVR's.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

In Calgary are ther are 20 or so other hockey teams (Flames, Hitmen, Dino's, Cougars, SAIT, Mustnags, Canucks, JR B, AMHL) you could watch which are better hockey then the Inferno.

This is an unfortunate but amusingly timely typo given the subject matter.

[FlamesAddiction]

I have to admit that I didn’t watch any games and now I regret it. I didn’t even know about it. Maybe they could have marketed better. Hopefully the teams can be absorbed into the US league. I also wonder if it might make a better summer hockey league so they can have the spotlight moreso

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Not sure what part you are saying "isn't true". In Calgary are ther are 20 or so other hockey teams (Flames, Hitmen, Dino's, Cougars, SAIT, Mustnags, Canucks, JR B, AMHL) you could watch which are better hockey then the Inferno. To say it is such good hockey (which you didn't but so many casual hockey fans do) is completely false. The Canada/ USA games, which are pretty good hockey, are NOT the same as a 6 team league (which is competing for players with another league) when it comes to competition level, skill and marketability.

Now in a less politically correct society they could market the attractive ladies, and play full contact hockey, add pyro, add gimmicks and over the top announcers. Like the WWE does with their females. Talk is the ladies triple threat match will be headlining Wrestlemania.

For those wanting to inspire young hockey players, the Women's World Championships are starting soon and TSN will be broadcasting the games, set you PVR's.

Womans pro hockey just isn't the same entertainment value. Team Canadas woman team usually play a game against a AAA midget team and have a tough time winning. It's not great hockey to watch. Its O.K to admit this.

[Northendzone]

i just can't help but feel that no matter how much you marketed the team and the league in larger cities, they will be in tough to find a lot of paying customers. Similar to the Calgary AJHL teams, they may find a better market in rural alberta; however, that would likely limit some of the educational and employment opportunities for the players.

It is unfortunate for the younger girls who are moving thru minor hockey right now as it closes a door for them to continue to play at the highest level they could possibly play at.

[sureLoss]

per the Athletic the NWHL is now looking at adding a Montreal and Toronto team. Calgary wouldn't be an option unless a major donor stepped in to help with cost and travel.

https://theathletic.com/898427/2019/...bruptly-folds/

[Resolute 14]

You pretty much have to pair Calgary and Edmonton for it to be viable.

Also, the one thing I wish they would have done with the Inferno is tie them to Hitmen (or even Flames) games as double headers. You might only have a couple thousand fans take advantage of such a format, but it would be better than the hundred or so they got at Winsport B.

[Scorch]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

You pretty much have to pair Calgary and Edmonton for it to be viable.

Also, the one thing I wish they would have done with the Inferno is tie them to Hitmen (or even Flames) games as double headers. You might only have a couple thousand fans take advantage of such a format, but it would be better than the hundred or so they got at Winsport B.

Sitting through 2.5 - 3 hours of hockey is enough for most people. There is only so much attention a human can give before they get bored and want to leave. Adding another 2 hours or more may not jive with many

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

China is going to bring in more money than North American women?

I'll believe that when I see it.

IIRC the Chinese team was in the league because they are hosting the winter Olympics and are interested in building their women's team to be competitive.

Originally Posted by sureLoss

per the Athletic the NWHL is now looking at adding a Montreal and Toronto team. Calgary wouldn't be an option unless a major donor stepped in to help with cost and travel.

https://theathletic.com/898427/2019/...bruptly-folds/

The Flames are already involved (I think) but I'm not sure to what extent, that is why the team name and colors are what they are. Ideally the Flames will do the right thing and continue to help out, as will the NHL. Ideally the two leagues will find a way to merge and I think the eastern teams will be an easier fit. Calgary will be a tough sell due to its isolation but it is doable if there are sponsors.

It's a shame, the team (and league) were huge in promoting female hockey and what they did at the local level was outstanding. Essentially the entire team acted as mentors for the various female teams that are part of Girls Hockey Calgary (this is the same as any other MHA in Calgary for those who are unfamiliar - equivalent to a Springbank, Bow Vallet etc.) and volunteered their time at practices etc. They were great role models to our girls. The entire GHC organization rebranded themselves to align with the Inferno as well. GHC community teams are Junior Inferno and the elite female teams are branded as Fire. The community will lose a lot if the team is gone for good. Yes there is a lot of hockey in Calgary but there was only one female team for half our population to look up to.

[Nyah]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t one of the biggest issue for Women professional sports in North America is the lack of women viewership?

I'll admit that I'm guilty of not watching women's sports very often. Like I said earlier, going to the games every once & a while was fun, especially with my niece because she would get so into it, but I'd never have watched their games on TV. I find women's sports, hockey in particular, really slow and amateur and as a result I don't actually enjoy watching it all that much. Unless it was the Olympics, I'd never set time aside to watch a woman's hockey game. IMO, it's tough to watch slower paced hockey when you can change the channel and watch fast, hard hitting hockey that actually has implications within a league you're invested in.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Scorch

Sitting through 2.5 - 3 hours of hockey is enough for most people. There is only so much attention a human can give before they get bored and want to leave. Adding another 2 hours or more may not jive with many

That's why I said you'd only be likely to get a couple thousand at most. i.e.: about a quarter of the crowd that is coming for a Hitmen game. But, it's more people seeing your product (even if many are showing up halfway through), which also means more people potentially getting interested, more potentially buying merchandise, etc.

Beats playing on the edge of the city in front of nobody.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Women's hockey, as a league is fairly un marketable and un profitable. It is the equivalent of Bantam AAA/ Midget AA, not the greatest hockey. The travel costs are going to kill any type of profit for the teams or income for the players. It's not the same game as Junior hockey nor the NHL.

This argument is always so confusing to me. I am supposed to believe that most people stay away from anything that is not top of the line? Then why do thousands attending WHL games, that's not the greatest of the great hockey. Why do thousands attend the Shaw Charity Classic to see old timers not in their prime anymore? Why do people go to Theatre Calgary; it's not Broadway.

CWHL games had the majority of the top players at the level, playing a game Canadians claim to love, at a price where the entire family (or a bunch of students) could have a night out with tickets, drinks and food cheaper than one Flames ticket.

Originally Posted by Lubicon

The Flames are already involved (I think) but I'm not sure to what extent, that is why the team name and colors are what they are. Ideally the Flames will do the right thing and continue to help out, as will the NHL. Ideally the two leagues will find a way to merge and I think the eastern teams will be an easier fit. Calgary will be a tough sell due to its isolation but it is doable if there are sponsors.

I cannot be quoted on the exact amounts but I believe the Flames involvement was very little financially (something like a few thousand over several years) and most of the support was "in-kind". That is, they paid for the logo redesign and jerseys and offered a little bit of promotion.

Frustrating when the team would be shut out for ice-time for practice and needed to come up with their own deals.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by craigwd

This argument is always so confusing to me. I am supposed to believe that most people stay away from anything that is not top of the line? Then why do thousands attending WHL games, that's not the greatest of the great hockey. Why do thousands attend the Shaw Charity Classic to see old timers not in their prime anymore? Why do people go to Theatre Calgary; it's not Broadway.

CWHL games had the majority of the top players at the level, playing a game Canadians claim to love, at a price where the entire family (or a bunch of students) could have a night out with tickets, drinks and food cheaper than one Flames ticket.



I cannot be quoted on the exact amounts but I believe the Flames involvement was very little financially (something like a few thousand over several years) and most of the support was "in-kind". That is, they paid for the logo redesign and jerseys and offered a little bit of promotion.

Frustrating when the team would be shut out for ice-time for practice and needed to come up with their own deals.

Yes they do stay away. The Hitmen are the next best game in town and a cheaper alternative, league also marketed as future NHLer's. After the Hitmen, huge drop off (90% +/-)in attendance at hockey games around the city, mostly parents, buddies and fans of the visiting team. Shaw Charity is the best golf around, no alternative; see the legends.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Yes they do stay away. The Hitmen are the next best game in town and a cheaper alternative, league also marketed as future NHLer's. After the Hitmen, huge drop off (90% +/-)in attendance at hockey games around the city, mostly parents, buddies and fans of the visiting team. Shaw Charity is the best golf around, no alternative; see the legends.

Yup. It's about having a strong unique selling proposition.
People go to Theatre Calgary because they put on the biggest shows in town. it is the closest thing to broadway people have access to in Calgary
People go to Vertigo because they specialize in mystery theatre
People go to Stage West because you get to pig out on a buffet while watching a mediocre show

If you don't have a strong unique selling proposition you will fail.
And this is why most leagues fail.
I'm not close enough to the CWHL to suggest that's what happened here - but I would guess it is a factor.

[BigFlameDog]

Agree they need a different marketing and promotion approach. It is obviously not the same as male/coed hockey. Different game, but it was important to young female players. Both my daughters loved this team and their game AND they love the Flames.

They understand its different and they love both teams for different reasons...really need to focus the marketing to young female players and their families. I was wondering if moving the home games around would help after we held one in Cochrane this year? We had limited time to pull it off but it was a big deal for our female players and families because it was happening right in our back yard.

Not sure the answer but sad to see them go. Have a feeling something will come up.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by BigFlameDog

Agree they need a different marketing and promotion approach. It is obviously not the same as male/coed hockey. Different game, but it was important to young female players. Both my daughters loved this team and their game AND they love the Flames.

They understand its different and they love both teams for different reasons...really need to focus the marketing to young female players and their families. I was wondering if moving the home games around would help after we held one in Cochrane this year? We had limited time to pull it off but it was a big deal for our female players and families because it was happening right in our back yard.

Not sure the answer but sad to see them go. Have a feeling something will come up.

market is one of the issues... its a double edged sword though.

a bigger market, theoretically, would have more people willing/wanting to go to those games, smaller markets don't have that population base, but the sporting options are limited.

now, with WHL franchises, if you get into the right location, you can become a fixture for the community... though that's still a tricky proposition as WHL franchises are not guaranteed to succeed either, despite having the ability to market future NHL'ers.

the Okotoks baseball team is good example though of moving a franchise to a smaller center and by doing so creating a solid fanbase due to a lack of a lot of competition...

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Damn. My daughter, after watching the Flames on TV said a few times "But only boys play hockey, right?" or "But only boys hockey is on TV right?".

Getting her to an Inferno game was the best way to answer her questions. It will be a shame if that's not an option going forward.

This post resonates with me. With the MLB season opening last week there was plenty of baseball on at my house over the weekend. My daughter who is about 3 and a half and in the middle of that age where she's learning to classify things, asked me "Do only 'daddies' play baseball?, no mommies?, because I want to be a baseball player when I grow up"

I too immediately thought of taking her to an inferno game next year to show her examples of women in sport so as to encourage her to pursue sports like I did as a kid. Shame that opportunity appears to have passed.

[Moneyhands23]

I think one of the big problems is that the men and woman play different games.
In general as spectators we want to watch sports that are high skill with a big physical edge.

I'm not a 100% sure if I am right or not, but it seems the rules for womans hockey are very restricted. The lack of big body checks and yes fighting really take a lot of excitement out of the game.

Got to say I would be way more interested in a (WNHL) if the rules were more open, allowing big hits and fights.

Also as others have said, 1 league In North America would also increase the skill level (of course travel cost would also increase).

Found this article after a quick search


https://thehockeywriters.com/hitting...ockey-why-not/

Hope to see a future league with stability for all these hard working athletes.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

I think one of the big problems is that the men and woman play different games.
In general as spectators we want to watch sports that are high skill with a big physical edge.

I'm not a 100% sure if I am right or not, but it seems the rules for womans hockey are very restricted. The lack of big body checks and yes fighting really take a lot of excitement out of the game.

Got to say I would be way more interested in a (WNHL) if the rules were more open, allowing big hits and fights.

Also as others have said, 1 league In North America would also increase the skill level (of course travel cost would also increase).

Found this article after a quick search


https://thehockeywriters.com/hitting...ockey-why-not/

Hope to see a future league with stability for all these hard working athletes.

Agreed the rules are different which makes the game different. Les exciting?? I'm not sure about that.

When the Women's national team plays their series against the MAAA male teams as part of their run up to an Olympics you can clearly see the difference in the games. The boys are slightly out of their element because they cannot body check but otherwise play a very fast and heavy game. They shoot harder, dump and chase, and generally overwhelm other teams with their size. The women play a much more skilled focussed and passing oriented game. Point to point passes, redirects etc. They cannot hope to match the boys strength but beat them positionally. It really is interesting to watch those games if you get a chance, the difference really stands out. I would not say one is superior to the other but both sides obviously play to their strengths and you only really notice this when they are playing each other. Oh yeah, the girls can get pretty nasty too if they want to just in a different way.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Agreed the rules are different which makes the game different. Les exciting?? I'm not sure about that.

When the Women's national team plays their series against the MAAA male teams as part of their run up to an Olympics you can clearly see the difference in the games. The boys are slightly out of their element because they cannot body check but otherwise play a very fast and heavy game. They shoot harder, dump and chase, and generally overwhelm other teams with their size. The women play a much more skilled focussed and passing oriented game. Point to point passes, redirects etc. They cannot hope to match the boys strength but beat them positionally. It really is interesting to watch those games if you get a chance, the difference really stands out. I would not say one is superior to the other but both sides obviously play to their strengths and you only really notice this when they are playing each other. Oh yeah, the girls can get pretty nasty too if they want to just in a different way.

nice summary. my son's MAA team played the Inferno I think 4 or 5 times last year (mind you Inferno sans national team members as it was an olympic year), the differences between the two teams were just as you stated, but amongst other things the boys had a hard time figuring out where the physical line was. As an aside there were one or two (younger) Inferno players that were playing with a bit of an edge (including snowing goalies etc) and the boys didn't know what to do with how to 'police' that. I was watching with one of the Inferno veterans that was injured and she said those players would have had to have answered for that in the CWHL but the boys just seemed perplexed on where the line was