[News] Tanev Update: Undergoing Surgery will likely be back between September and November

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by boogerz

Stone has been good, but his lack of speed and so-so mobility is regularly getting exposed. There's been a few times when he's lucky that Kylington closed in quickly on the puck carrier to buy him time to get back.

At this point, maybe Sutter needs to sub Valimaki or Mackey in for one of Zadorov or Gudbranson to get some more mobility back there.

Agreed on Stone and he probably getting the least mins vs the McDavid line. It’s not exactly hard defending the other 3 oilers lines

[browna]

Originally Posted by boogerz

Stone has been good, but his lack of speed and so-so mobility is regularly getting exposed. There's been a few times when he's lucky that Kylington closed in quickly on the puck carrier to buy him time to get back.

At this point, maybe Sutter needs to sub Valimaki or Mackey in for one of Zadorov or Gudbranson to get some more mobility back there.

D on the ice for goals against last game:

Gud and Z for the 1st, the PP goal where the trailers Draisital and Hyman should be covered by forwards.
Gud Kylington, Kylington let's Kane glide to the net for 2nd goal.
Andersson Hanifin 3rd. Hanifin lets McDavid beat him inside at red line and was flat footed.
Andersson Kylington 4th

[Macho0978]

Anyone have a break down of ice time vs the McDavid line for each dman?

Stone has been great but from what I have seen he is hardly been on the ice vs the McDavid line. It's a bit different checking Kassian and Archibald vs. McDavid, Kane and Draisaitl.

I personally would have 0 confidence with Stone getting more ice against Mcdavid

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Anyone have a break down of ice time vs the McDavid line for each dman?

Stone has been great but from what I have seen he is hardly been on the ice vs the McDavid line. It's a bit different checking Kassian and Archibald vs. McDavid, Kane and Draisaitl.

I personally would have 0 confidence with Stone getting more ice against Mcdavid

At ES, McDavid has been primarily facing Hanifin, Andersson, Gudbranson, and Zadorov in pretty equal proportions.

Hanifin-Andersson are struggling on the eye test (imo), but they're doing an okay job of containing McDavid in the advanced stats. His CF% is 52-53% with those two are on the ice.

Zadorov-Gudbranson are struggling on the eye test and in the advanced stats. McDavid, Kane, Drasaitl, Hyman, and RNH's CF% is 60-74% whenever one of those two are on the ice.

Stone-Kylington are primarily being matched up against the Oiler's big lines, and they're splitting their time pretty evenly between the McDavid line and Draisaitl line. They're doing okay-ish on the eye test (imo) and advanced stats. McDavid and Kane's CF% is only around 40% with those two on the ice. Draisaitl and Hyman are being limited to 53-62% CF%.

Relative CF% is showing that Andersson, Hanifin, Kylington, and Stone are doing a better job of containing the Oilers' Top 6 than Zadorov and Gudbranson.

Even though this is only CF% and Rel CF%, it corroborates the eye test. First pairing and third pairings are hanging in there by a thread, but the second pairing of Zadorov-Gudranson is being badly exposed. Goaltending hasn't been the best either, which compounds the situation.



Unless Markstrom summons his inner Kipper, how does Sutter fix this? Do you demote Zadorov-Gudranson to the third pairing and hope Kylington-Stone can absorb the additional minutes with better results? Do you give one of Zadorov-Gudbranson the night off and see if Mackey or Valimaki can do a better job? Do you go back to rolling 11 forwards and 7 defense to limit Zadorov-Gudbranson's TOI? Do you split up Andersson-Hanifin to reduce the talent disparity on the first and second pairings?

Hopefully Sutter figures this out for next game.

[flames_fan_down_under]

It’s funny how GMs always say you can never have enough D, and this series illustrates that.

I love the size of our D, I think Hanifin, Kylington, Anderson and Tanev have good to great mobility but with that additional size In Gudbranson, Zads and Stone you lose that mobility. I wonder if just basically throwing Hanifin Anderson out there for a ton of minutes and just keep those guys who can skate out there as often as possible is the only solution.

[Macho0978]

How many goals has the McDavid line score in transition or turnovers at the blue line vs. Sustained pressure at even strength?

It seems like almost all are in transition. The Jets beat the oilers by literally taking 0 chances when McDavid was on the ice knowing they will beat the other lines.

Flames need to get Gaudreau away from McDavid and tell backlund and jankrok to just sit back and chip pucks out.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

It’s funny how GMs always say you can never have enough D, and this series illustrates that.

I love the size of our D, I think Hanifin, Kylington, Anderson and Tanev have good to great mobility but with that additional size In Gudbranson, Zads and Stone you lose that mobility. I wonder if just basically throwing Hanifin Anderson out there for a ton of minutes and just keep those guys who can skate out there as often as possible is the only solution.

And centers. Our center depth is atrocious.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

How many goals has the McDavid line score in transition or turnovers at the blue line vs. Sustained pressure at even strength?

It seems like almost all are in transition. The Jets beat the oilers by literally taking 0 chances when McDavid was on the ice knowing they will beat the other lines.

Flames need to get Gaudreau away from McDavid and tell backlund and jankrok to just sit back and chip pucks out.

This is an interesting thought.

Our best line is the Mangiapane line right now too.

Buckle it down vs McDavid and grind down their depth lines.

[cannon7]

Considering Zadorov and Gudbranson aren't doing much hitting, I'd be tempted to plug both Valimaki and Mackey in. Zadorov has been effective on and off. Maybe play 7 d-men, scratching Gudbranson and activating Mackey and Valimaki?

[Jay Random]

By all accounts, Valimaki wasn't even good in Stockton this season. I can't see him suddenly becoming an improvement to an NHL playoff team.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

This is an interesting thought.

Our best line is the Mangiapane line right now too.

Buckle it down vs McDavid and grind down their depth lines.

Sutter needs to match lines. Backlund as much as possible but the only issue is McDavid plays 25 mins a game so we can’t have backlund out every shift. Jankrok line isn’t scoring anyways so they might as well just sit back and try and waste McDavid shifts

The nice thing is the oilers have loaded up since Leon got hurt. Just contain these guys and don’t take penalties. The other lines for the oilers play more with less pps and they literally contribute nothing all playoffs

[djsFlames]

Have to Dallas this thing up.

Get Bonesy on the phone for some wisdom lol.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Have to Dallas this thing up.

Get Bonesy on the phone for some wisdom lol.

He is out of a job too. Hire him as an assistant coach / scout for the rest of the year.

[minnow]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Sutter needs to match lines. Backlund as much as possible but the only issue is McDavid plays 25 mins a game so we can’t have backlund out every shift. Jankrok line isn’t scoring anyways so they might as well just sit back and try and waste McDavid shifts

The nice thing is the oilers have loaded up since Leon got hurt. Just contain these guys and don’t take penalties. The other lines for the oilers play more with less pps and they literally contribute nothing all playoffs

Yes, Backlund has been very good against him. Brodie used to have some success also.

[Rollin22x]

It’s frustrating that Lucic and Dube (sometimes Tkachuk) are the only players throwing hits. I get unreasonably angry when I see Yamamoto with bigger hits than a lot of the flames. Gudbranson has been a disappointment as far as intimidation goes. No one is shying away from hitting him at all.

[Ironhorse]

Gudbranson is probably afraid of getting a chincy penalty for being a bigger player.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Rollin22x

It’s frustrating that Lucic and Dube (sometimes Tkachuk) are the only players throwing hits. I get unreasonably angry when I see Yamamoto with bigger hits than a lot of the flames. Gudbranson has been a disappointment as far as intimidation goes. No one is shying away from hitting him at all.

I think the Flames are afraid of penalties at this point and it is affecting their physical game. The refs are in their head now.

[blender]

Fair points, but they are the only ones actually in their own heads. It sucks to see your team lose their mojo, but it is possible to get it back. They need to go back to their baseline game. Sutter and the players have talked about it all season.
I fully expect them to have a much better game tomorrow.

[craigsol]

any chance he is back tonight?

[Flames0910]

Originally Posted by craigsol

any chance he is back tonight?

Bingo said in the other thread that Valimaki got sent down (and not in time for the Heat's playoff game) so there might just be a tiny sliver of hope...