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Old 10-22-2019, 09:23 PM   #21
Matata
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Didn't really like it. Some of the world building was intriguing, but it was trying too hard to be stylish and pull at the hearstrings. Making white supremacists the bad guy could work, but it just seemed like a lazy way of modernizing the story (the original story was about power, control and human nature, race was never really part of it, so it was weird that it was made a core theme).

I really hated seeing Doctor Manhattan on Mars, apparently the god who was transcending human perceptions of space and time hasn't figured out anything better to do over the last 30 years.
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Old 10-23-2019, 12:06 PM   #22
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Didn't really like it. Some of the world building was intriguing, but it was trying too hard to be stylish and pull at the hearstrings. Making white supremacists the bad guy could work, but it just seemed like a lazy way of modernizing the story (the original story was about power, control and human nature, race was never really part of it, so it was weird that it was made a core theme).

I really hated seeing Doctor Manhattan on Mars, apparently the god who was transcending human perceptions of space and time hasn't figured out anything better to do over the last 30 years.
I definitely agree with these criticisms.

Rorschach was in no way a racist. It really seems odd that his legacy would be adopted by racists. A KKK revival is a very lazy way to make it clear who the bad guys are. This is a huge missed opportunity to explore the nuances about the potential conflicts between government, freedom, and overtly right wing thinking.

I'm willing to give the writers the benefit of the doubt, as Rorschach's teachings could definitely be co-opted by fascist groups. Perhaps another interpretation of Rorschach from other characters come out later on in the series.

Apparently there are some panels in the original Watchmen of Rorschach reading racist newsletters though? I don't remember that but would be interested to see what he was reading.


And yes, you do have to watch the movie to know what's going on here.

Edit: Upon some further reflection...the good guys so far are the police, who are also using some very questionable tactics. We'll likely get a more nuanced storyline as the season unfolds.

Last edited by blankall; 10-23-2019 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 10-23-2019, 12:45 PM   #23
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Actually you should read the graphic novel, as there are no references to squids in the movie, nor to any of Rorschach's actual views.
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Old 10-23-2019, 01:04 PM   #24
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Apparently there are some panels in the original Watchmen of Rorschach reading racist newsletters though? I don't remember that but would be interested to see what he was reading.

Rorschach was a fan of a small, independent rightwing / conspiracy theory newspaper with a dubious reputation (kind of like a pint sized infowars). He left his notes explaining the Ozymandias conspiracy to this paper.


They seem to be skipping the movie on this one and using the graphic novel as the basis. Which is a little jarring as a 48 year old, 120 lb Regina King whooping ass up and down the block really contradicts the tone of the novel.


Also don't like that they made Ozymandias an old boring weirdo, but I am interested in seeing where they go with it.
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Old 10-23-2019, 01:21 PM   #25
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Rorschach was a fan of a small, independent rightwing / conspiracy theory newspaper with a dubious reputation (kind of like a pint sized infowars). He left his notes explaining the Ozymandias conspiracy to this paper.


They seem to be skipping the movie on this one and using the graphic novel as the basis. Which is a little jarring as a 48 year old, 120 lb Regina King whooping ass up and down the block really contradicts the tone of the novel.


Also don't like that they made Ozymandias an old boring weirdo, but I am interested in seeing where they go with it.
Reading up more on it, apparently there's an overtly racist cartoon shown as a sample of the "New Frontiersman's" work. I haven't seen it yet, but if true, that's a pretty solid link between Rorschach and racism.

HBO's website has tried to fill in the gaps too:

https://www.hbo.com/content/dam/hbod...urnal-memo.pdf

Quote:
“Rorschach’s Journal” As Counter Culture Classic
“Rorschach’s Journal” might have faded into obscurity if not for two events, the “Blue Wave” of 1992
and the arrest of Dreiberg and Laurie Blake in 1995 for violating the Keene Act. Their capture re-ignited
cultural fascination with masked vigilantes, and to capitalize on that curiosity, New Frontiersman published
“Rorschach’s Journal” in its entirety. The bookazine became a best-seller that appealed to a wide variety
of curiosities, including right wing extremists. Some take it as a history book, others, devotional literature.
For them, “Rorschach’s Journal”—and Godfrey’s interpretation of it—challenges the new, heretical
orthodoxy that makes them feel marginalized and obsolete, written by a revolutionary they revere as a saint.
It rationalizes their conviction that our current president is an illegitimate president, brought to power
because of the E.B.D.E., which, again, per the convoluted logic of Godfrey’s conspiracy theory, was
essentially an insidious coup concocted the embittered liberal elite, as the ramifications of the D.I.E. paved
the way for the Blue Wave of ‘92. This belief is the justification for any number of anti-social behaviors, from
the formation of drop-out communities known as “Nixonvilles,” to domestic terrorists like the aforementioned
Seventh Kavalry, who protest the president by committing violence against symbols of the executive branch,
which is to say, law enforcement.
But the legacy of “Rorschach’s Journal” is evident in every garden variety “anti-hero” vigilante we see in
our line of work, the wannabe local hero who puts on an idiosyncratic costume to live out their solipsism and
inflict their yawp on society. Most of them proceed from the ingrained belief that government—especially an
interventionist government, with its emphasis on controlled growth through increased regulation—is woefully
inefficient or unworthy of trust. Their cynicism is further nurtured by the administration’s controversial efforts
to manage our popular culture with warning labels on entertainment and prohibitions on depictions of the
D.I.E. that might trigger those with 11/2 PTSD or stoke paranoid thinking about it. (They’re already prone
to think that cultural institutions are rigged to demonize them. See: the first season of American Hero Story,
which turned Rorschach, now a conservative/libertarian icon, into a withering deconstruction of pathology
that implicitly shamed anyone who ever found Rorschach or his kind admirable or noble.)
In this universe, Rorschach has influenced a wide variety of fringe groups.

Edit:

Just found the cartoon in question

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Old 10-23-2019, 01:24 PM   #26
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I hear you can search places to read comic online.
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Old 10-23-2019, 01:26 PM   #27
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Actually you should read the graphic novel, as there are no references to squids in the movie, nor to any of Rorschach's actual views.
I have been wanting to read the novel, is this the best one to get?

https://www.amazon.ca/Watchmen-Delux...s%2C236&sr=8-1
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Old 10-23-2019, 01:54 PM   #28
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Reading up more on it, apparently there's an overtly racist cartoon shown as a sample of the "New Frontiersman's" work. I haven't seen it yet, but if true, that's a pretty solid link between Rorschach and racism.

HBO's website has tried to fill in the gaps too:

https://www.hbo.com/content/dam/hbod...urnal-memo.pdf



In this universe, Rorschach has influenced a wide variety of fringe groups.

Edit:

Just found the cartoon in question
I wouldn't call the comic overtly racist, but it is incidentally racist. There's only one non-white person among the villians. That comic is about traditional american values being challenged by rivals, and defending traditional american values is the engine that drives Rorschach.

Rorschach spends a lot of his scenes in prison with a black psychologist, and I don't recall him ever disparaging his psychologist for his race in his thoughts or actions. I think Rorschach see's a world with bigger problems than race.
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Old 10-23-2019, 01:56 PM   #29
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I have been wanting to read the novel, is this the best one to get?

https://www.amazon.ca/Watchmen-Delux...s%2C236&sr=8-1
This would be nice if you want a displayable book with nice glossy pages. If you just want to read the comic, you can get cheaper versions for less than half the price. They would probably come with the cheaper non-glossy newsprint pages though.
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Old 10-23-2019, 03:00 PM   #30
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I saw the movie and felt like I caught the gist of it. Never seen the comics. I watched the first episode of this show. Can anyone explain to me wtf is going on?? I really want to like this show but it just seems so hard to follow.
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Old 10-23-2019, 03:17 PM   #31
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I saw the movie and felt like I caught the gist of it. Never seen the comics. I watched the first episode of this show. Can anyone explain to me wtf is going on?? I really want to like this show but it just seems so hard to follow.
The comics and the movie are very similar.

The main difference is the ending, which does relate to the TV show. Spoilers for comic book ending:

Spoiler!


As far as I noticed, this was the only major reference someone who had seen the movie, but not read the comics, wouldn't get.
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Old 10-23-2019, 07:44 PM   #32
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Old 10-23-2019, 07:45 PM   #33
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I watched the first episode of this show. Can anyone explain to me wtf is going on??.
No we can't, and a lot.
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:12 AM   #34
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This is clearly a Lindelof show.

If you look at lost he attempted to explain the mystery and that made the show less good at the end. With leftovers he went anti-lost and never explained anything. In general though the show will allow people to exist in the rules of the world with the mysteries of the world being important to the plot but never really explained.

So the feeling of not knowing anything about what is going on is part of a Lindelof show.
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Old 10-24-2019, 12:06 PM   #35
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Didn't really like it. Some of the world building was intriguing, but it was trying too hard to be stylish and pull at the hearstrings. Making white supremacists the bad guy could work, but it just seemed like a lazy way of modernizing the story (the original story was about power, control and human nature, race was never really part of it, so it was weird that it was made a core theme).

I really hated seeing Doctor Manhattan on Mars, apparently the god who was transcending human perceptions of space and time hasn't figured out anything better to do over the last 30 years.
I think that the line between good and bad will get fuzzy. I have a feeling that they are setting up an easy antagonist so that they can pull the rug from under the audiences feet at the season climax.
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Old 10-25-2019, 09:45 AM   #36
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Anyone use Crave Tv to watch HBO is it worth it?
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Old 10-25-2019, 10:28 AM   #37
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Anyone use Crave Tv to watch HBO is it worth it?
Telus has a promotion where if you have 6 other packaged the HBO/Crave package is only $10/month...so that's pretty awesome and well worth the money. I can stream both HBO and crave from any device.

We easily have 6 other packages, as my girlfriend watches a bunch of reality TV crap...as opposed to my shows, which are awesome.
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Old 10-25-2019, 10:55 AM   #38
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Telus has a promotion where if you have 6 other packaged the HBO/Crave package is only $10/month...so that's pretty awesome and well worth the money. I can stream both HBO and crave from any device.

We easily have 6 other packages, as my girlfriend watches a bunch of reality TV crap...as opposed to my shows, which are awesome.
When the show is aired live, can I watch it, or do I need to wait a few days for it to be uploaded?
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Old 10-25-2019, 10:57 AM   #39
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When the show is aired live, can I watch it, or do I need to wait a few days for it to be uploaded?
Goes live on Crave as it airs.
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Old 10-25-2019, 05:25 PM   #40
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Goes live on Crave as it airs.
In the time zone you are in. So in Alberta the eastern HBO feed will air it first and it will go on Crave with the Western feed.
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