“I felt like our group wanted to make sure that the Vegas team knew, that Ryan knew that they were behind him and wanted to have a conversation. I was behind them all the way and supported them 100 per cent with whatever decision they made and it’s hard not to be proud of them,” Green said.
“We talked about it as a group and wanted to go over and talk to Ryan [Reaves] and Vegas and we just all thought it was the best course of action,” Horvat said. “It was a really important decision and I think it was the right decision to make. We needed to do something and take a stand and I think this is the appropriate form of action.”
Reaves said he had been struggling to decide whether to play or not, and hadn’t decided what to do when he started receiving messages from players in the Eastern bubble and then from his opponents in the western conference.
“I got a text saying Vancouver wanted to talk. That I think was more powerful, that the conversation started with white players on other teams wanting to talk and I think that’s the most powerful thing that happened today,” Reaves said.
“If you look around this room there’s a lot of white athletes in here and I think that’s the statement that’s being made right now. It’s great that the NBA and MLB and the WNBA did this they have a lot of black players in those leagues. But for all these athletes in here to take a stand and say, you know what, we see the problem too and we stand behind you. I go to war with these guys and I hate their guts on the ice but I couldn’t be more proud.”
Green said cancelling games was a way to signal that there are “things that are bigger than sports.”
“I’m sure our province is proud of them but it’s not just about B.C. it’s bigger than that and it’s about society in general.”
Reaves stressed Thursday’s action was an important step for a league that’s been reluctant to address issues of systemic racism.
“The statement we’ve made today is something that’s going to last. These two days aren’t going to fix anything, but the conversations and the statement that has been made are very powerful especially coming from this league.”
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Was it wise to cancel all sports on the night of Trumps acceptance speech? Probably improved his ratings. Honestly ALL efforts should be focused on getting him out of office. It may not fix all the problems but it is the ONLY first step.
If he wins again she's all over
Now THATS pure politics that has nothing to do with even this misguided and useless boycott. Go back to the CBC.
Interesting point being made that this is a strike in reality not boycotting. The reason why the players in the NBA and other leagues are calling it a boycott is due to how the CBAs are written. They wanted to call it a strike because it is more powerful bit just couldn't.
Last edited by combustiblefuel; 08-28-2020 at 07:10 AM.
Interesting point being made that this is a strike in reality not boycotting. The reason why the players in the NBA and other leagues are calling it a boycott is due to how the CBAs are written. They wanted to call it a strike because it is more powerful bit just couldn't.
That's one way to say the believe in this cause a little bit but not enough that they are willing to give up their contracts over it.
What is the realistic outcome here? What happens next time a black man is shot, justifiable or not by police? It appears that these boycotts and the protests throughout the US have created as more division then anything I can remeber in my lifetime. Should there not also be an appeal to not fight or run from the police? Like look, has anything good EVER come from a situation where anyone has actively engaged with or fled from police officers?
Of course we don't want cops shooting people, but should their not also be an appeal from the BLM movement to comply with police? The Rayshad Brooks and Jacod Blake shootings both should have been avoided, on one side trigger happy cops and on the other side guys resisting arrest and assaulting officers.
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Last edited by Derek Sutton; 08-28-2020 at 07:41 AM.
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That's one way to say the believe in this cause a little bit but not enough that they are willing to give up their contracts over it.
What is the realistic outcome here? What happens next time a black man is shot, justifiable or not by police? It appears that these boycotts and the protests throughout the US have created as more division then anything I can remeber in my lifetime.
Thank you, that's how I look at it too. While I am all against racism, no matter the form or who the victim is, I don't think some of the zealotry we are seeing now is doing any good. Aklim Aliu founded Alliance for diversity, but is absolutely ok with saying stuff like "If you are not with us, you are against us!". That's right, lot of diversity with that mindest. Thats how totalitarian regime starts. Americans don't know it yet, because they have never expereinced communism as we eastern europeans did. The same thing with LeBron James, the man talks about slavery 400 hunderd years ago while making millions of dollars from children workers and slavery in present days. And I see people saying that it doesnt matter because now the main thing is the BLM. And it's more improtant because it's USA. In Czech Republic where I live there is no racism towards black community, because we have close to none here, but we have other minorities that are facing oppression and living at the edge of society. Can they relate to racism? Absolutely. Can they relate to BLM? Well thery are told they cannot because they are not black and their ancestors were not enslaved. How do you think the rest of the world is taking this in? Because trust me, the whole world is watching.
Lol, the guy's not even dead. I'll be pissed if the NHL skips a day over this nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Sutton
That's one way to say the believe in this cause a little bit but not enough that they are willing to give up their contracts over it.
What is the realistic outcome here? What happens next time a black man is shot, justifiable or not by police? It appears that these boycotts and the protests throughout the US have created as more division then anything I can remeber in my lifetime.
Yes, because it's weeding out the rasicts . There's always been this division don't fool yourself. It's always been there . It the fact that the technology has allowed everyone a voice to be put out on a global scale. Back in the day it was handing out flyers on the streets and hope the media would maybe cover your event or interview people. The papers and t.v could pick and choose what they published. If say you live in whitefish montana you think your going to read about something that happened in Kalamazoo? You think someone in France would have read about a protest in Kenosha ? That's not the case anymore the internet has enabled both sides to have a voice.
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Dude we've discussed your questions about 300 times in this thread....
Well I've read most of this thread but there does not seem to be an answer for the question of what happens next time there is a police shooting of a black man. Is it reasonable to expect sports to shut down completely? Is it just another day off for sports? This has no been addressed. Has a reporter asked Kane or Dumba or Lebron what they will do the Nxt time this happens?
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Well I've read most of this thread but there does not seem to be an answer for the question of what happens next time there is a police shooting of a black man. Is it reasonable to expect sports to shut down completely? Is it just another day off for sports? This has no been addressed. Has a reporter asked Kane or Dumba or Lebron what they will do the Nxt time this happens?
You didn't originally ask that till you edited your last post.
EVERY single post you've posted on this site since these events have taken is in the tone of
" If these black people just listened to the police non of this #### would be happening. There disrupting the way things are and destoying society " then when you get called out on your overtly racist over tones you go back and edit your post to include " but of course we don't want people police to shoot black people but what else was there for an option in this case"
It's transparent, this is what the Republicans do in the States consistently.Tucker Carlson and Trump specifically do this to perfection.
" I'm not say anything but I'm just asking questions? "
Last edited by combustiblefuel; 08-28-2020 at 08:06 AM.
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The whole Stanley Cup playoffs are several months late, what does a few extra days do.
And to the usual suspects who want to keep 'politics' out of hockey, did you already forget the Bill Peters incident?
Racism isn't a political issue good grief, it's a humanity issue which directly impacts several players, and other players have decided to stand with them on this message.
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i posted this in the NBA thread but thought it would be relevant here as well. This is the most comprehensive rundown of the past 2 days that I’ve seen. Chris Haynes is definitely the most plugged-in and trusted reporter with NBA players (Woj and Shams get their info from agents and team execs).
For people wondering, I don't think it is healthy to remove posts like this or give the people an infraction. Views such as this are part of the reason why we have issues in our society. So I think it is important that we allow them to be stated so we can see the reality of where we are at, in all its ugliness. Deleting it only masks those issues by pretending they don't exist including within the community on CP.
It also helps us to identify a POS.
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You didn't originally ask that till you edited your last post.
EVERY single post you've posted on this site since these events have taken is in the tone of
" If these black people just listened to the police non of this #### would be happening. There disrupting the way things are and destoying society " then when you get called out on your overtly racist over tones you go back and edit your post to include " but of course we don't want people police to shoot black people but what else was there for an option in this case"
It's transparent, this is what the Republicans do in the States consistently.Tucker Carlson and Trump specifically do this to perfection.
" I'm not say anything but I'm just asking questions? "
Except that is not anything close to what I said.
Presenting facts, asking questions, and controlling emotion are not racist traits. Expecting anybody who is under arrest to comply with police, not fight them, follow orders from police and not run from them is not a racist trait.
Just answer this one question. Has anything good ever come out of a situation where any person under arrest has physically engaged police or attempted to flee from police? That appears to be the common bond in a number of these incidents.
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Jesus the last 24 hours of this thread were a disgusting read, but it proves exactly WHY the players and NHL needed to do this. So many privileged white hockey fans don't give a damn of what happens in the world outside of their own personal bubble, and the only way to reach them is to interrupt their routine. You get some absolutely disgusting people like Johnhitbox coming out of the woodwork, but hopefully some other less-disgusting hockey fans take a minute to read why the NHL shut down for a day and pledge to be more active in shutting down casual racism when they see it
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Jesus the last 24 hours of this thread were a disgusting read, but it proves exactly WHY the players and NHL needed to do this. So many privileged white hockey fans don't give a damn of what happens in the world outside of their own personal bubble, and the only way to reach them is to interrupt their routine. You get some absolutely disgusting people like Johnhitbox coming out of the woodwork, but hopefully some other less-disgusting hockey fans take a minute to read why the NHL shut down for a day and pledge to be more active in shutting down casual racism when they see it
Read Calgary Flames Facebook full of anti BLM comments, I comment looks like a Trump love fest in here, and I get Trump 2020 crap posted to me, makes my head shake.
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Last edited by calgaryred; 08-28-2020 at 08:53 AM.
Presenting facts, asking questions, and controlling emotion are not racist traits. Expecting anybody who is under arrest to comply with police, not fight them, follow orders from police and not run from them is not a racist trait.
Just answer this one question. Has anything good ever come out of a situation where any person under arrest has physically engaged police or attempted to flee from police? That appears to be the common bond in a number of these incidents.
I suggest you look into the fallacy of "Just asking questions " what your doing is not a discussion. Your purposly asking loaded questions the presupposes and red herring fallacy. Your not interested in actual answers . Your trying to get that "gotcha " response .
I'm all up for discussions with people .meaningful discussions are beneficial. Obviously, we are not going to be able to acheive this . You get called out on a political tactic that's easy to spot and reply by using that same exact tactic again in your reply to that criticism. This is Republican interview tactic 101.
Presenting facts, asking questions, and controlling emotion are not racist traits. Expecting anybody who is under arrest to comply with police, not fight them, follow orders from police and not run from them is not a racist trait.
Just answer this one question. Has anything good ever come out of a situation where any person under arrest has physically engaged police or attempted to flee from police? That appears to be the common bond in a number of these incidents.
Would you first answer the question of why you’ve done your best to justify the shooting of Blake, and the killings of both Floyd and Brooks, by talking about their criminal past or what they did in the moment to earn a potential death sentence, but Kyle Rittenhouse was barely worth a mention to you?
Do you believe Rittenhouse deserves to die, too? I don’t, but what do you think?
I am real late to this thread and I could only stomach the first four pages of responses before I stopped reading.
Racism and elitism in Calgary has always disappointed me and is one of the reasons I left. Not that there isn't any in all the other places I have lived but Calgary has a nasty strain of it.
My thanks to the people working against it. Here, and more importantly, by their actions elsewhere.
I do want to say to all the people saying a NHL boycott has no effect that I think you are wrong. It may not have much effect but it does matter.
For a moment to become a movement and then a shared belief it needs momentum or it remains just a moment.. This boycott adds to the momentum in a small way.
It's not about the amount of effect you have but the consistency in which you stand up when it is time to stand up. Sports, including the NHL and its players have chosen to use their platform now to stand up when the time is right and this was one of those times. I don't mind that the NHL was a day late. I would mind if they never stood up.
Perhaps others have said something similar. I couldn't read it all.
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I often participate in these types of threads but am late to this one. Its always disappointing to see some of the attitudes (and the misinformation on which they are based) that still exist in our community. Anyway, thought it might be helpful to post some recent (2019) comments from the Supreme Court of Canada on the topic of racialized persons' interactions with police in Canada:
Quote:
[89] The information necessary to inform the reasonable person is readily available from many sources and authorities which are not the subject of reasonable dispute. Many authoritative studies, research and articles were cited to the Court to help establish the social context of the relationship between the police and racialized communities. In their submissions to this Court, multiple interveners made arguments on the basis of reliable studies and reputable reports that predate this appeal. This information about race and policing plays a crucial role and may also inform many issues, including fact finding, credibility assessments, determining what evidence is accepted as persuasive, assessing if there has been a detention and whether it is arbitrary under s. 9, and whether evidence should be admitted under s. 24.
[90] Members of racial minorities have disproportionate levels of contact with the police and the criminal justice system in Canada (R. T. Fitzgerald and P. J. Carrington, “Disproportionate Minority Contact in Canada: Police and Visible Minority Youth” (2011) 53 Can. J. Crimin. & Crim. Just. 449, at p. 450). In 2003, the Ontario Human Rights Commission (“OHRC”) issued a report titled Paying the Price: The Human Cost of Racial Profiling (online). The OHRC summarized then existing research studies, which established that racial minorities are both treated differently by the police and that such differential treatment does not go unnoticed by them. The following excerpt demonstrates the extent, breadth, and reliability of reports which began to chronicle the issues in the 1970’s:
. . . there have been numerous studies which have confirmed differential treatment of racialized groups in different contexts. The African Canadian Legal Clinic has identified at least 15 reports issued since the 1970s dealing with police/minority relations in Canada. Early Ontario reports included those of the Walter Pitman Task Force (1977) and a 1979 Report by Gerald Emmett Cardinal Carter to the Civic Authorities of Metropolitan Toronto and its Citizens.
In 1988, the Solicitor General of Ontario appointed Clare Lewis as chair of the Race Relations and Policing Task Force. The Task Force’s 1989 report concluded that visible minorities believed they were policed differently: “They do not believe that they are policed fairly and they made a strong case for their view which cannot be ignored.” The Task Force found that racial minorities would like to participate in law enforcement and crime prevention but are “denied integration into community life when labelled as crime prone.” The report noted that the worst enemy of effective policing is the absence of public confidence and emphasized that police reliance on a “bad apple theory” to explain incidents does not help solve police race relations problems. The Task Force presented 57 recommendations to the Solicitor General covering monitoring, hiring and promotion, race relations training, use of force and community relations.
Stephen Lewis’ 1992 Report to the Premier on Racism in Ontario on the issue of police/visible minority relations concluded that visible minorities, particularly African Canadians, experienced discrimination in policing and the criminal justice system. Stephen Lewis recommended that the Task Force on Race Relations and Policing be reconstituted owing to perceived inadequacies with the implementation of the 57 recommendations in its 1989 report. A second report of the Task Force was published in November 1992 which examined the status of the implementation of the recommendations from the 1989 report and offered additional recommendations.
In 1992, the Ontario government also established the Commission on Systemic Racism in the Ontario Criminal Justice System. This Commission studied all facets of criminal justice and in December 1995 issued a 450 page report with recommendations.
To date, this is the most comprehensive report on the issue of systemic racism in Ontario’s criminal justice system. The review confirmed the perception of racialized groups that they are not treated equally by criminal justice institutions. Moreover, the findings also showed that the concern was not limited to police.
In addition to the various task forces, social scientists, criminologists and other academics have studied racial profiling using different social science research methods. Some have used qualitative research techniques and field observations while others have employed quantitative research and examined official records. Regardless of the method used, these studies have consistently showed that law enforcement agents profiled racial minorities. [Footnotes omitted; pp. 9-10.]
(See also Fitzgerald and Carrington, at p. 450.)
[91] The most recent report of the OHRC, entitled A Collective Impact: Interim report on the inquiry into racial profiling and racial discrimination of Black persons by the Toronto Police Service, was issued in November 2018. It is the latest in what the OHRC says is its 15-year commitment to removing race based discrimination and was an interim report of its year-long inquiry into the relationship between the Toronto Police Service (“TPS”) and the Black community. In this report, the OHRC used quantitative and qualitative research methods to understand the experiences of members of the Black community with policing (p. 16).
[92] The report covers the period of time between January 1, 2010 and June 30, 2017.
[93] Overall, the OHRC expressed serious concerns. The study revealed that “Black people are much more likely to have force used against them by the TPS that results in serious injury or death” and between 2013 and 2017, a Black person in Toronto was nearly 20 times more likely than a White person to be involved in a police shooting that resulted in civilian death (p. 19). The OHRC report reveals recurring themes: a lack of legal basis for police stopping, questioning or detaining Black people in the first place; inappropriate or unjustified searches during encounters; and unnecessary charges or arrests (pp. 21, 26 and 37). The report reveals that many had experiences that have “contributed to feelings of fear/trauma, humiliation, lack of trust and expectations of negative police treatment” (p. 25).
[94] More recently, after the appeal was heard, Justice Michael H. Tulloch, of the Court of Appeal for Ontario, issued the Tulloch Report. The report focuses on the historical practice of carding in Ontario and the regulation entitled Collection of Identifying Information in Certain Circumstances — Prohibition and Duties, O. Reg. 58/16. It documents how, over time, the practice of carding evolved to no longer solely target persons of interest to detectives, but rather anyone the police deemed “of interest” during the course of their duties (pp. 38-39). The Tulloch Report is relevant because it focuses on the perceptions of those subject to police encounters similar to the kind that occurred here. Justice Tulloch notes that “[h]istorically, Indigenous, Black and other racialized communities have different perspectives and experiences with practices such as street checks and carding” (p. 37). Not only do these communities have fundamentally different perceptions and experiences with carding, the impact of carding on minority youth, especially those who live in less affluent communities, is acute. As Justice Tulloch notes (at pp. 41-42):
Youth, especially Indigenous, Black and other racialized youth, and youth in low-income housing, are disproportionately impacted by street checks. “[W]hile the ‘street’ constitutes a meaningful part of everyday life for many marginalized youth, their presence and visibility in that space makes them ready targets for heightened police surveillance and intervention”. A street check is often a young person’s first contact with the police. [Footnote omitted.]
[95] The impact of the over-policing of racial minorities and the carding of individuals within those communities without any reasonable suspicion of criminal activity is more than an inconvenience. Carding takes a toll on a person’s physical and mental health. It impacts their ability to pursue employment and education opportunities (Tulloch Report, at p. 42). Such a practice contributes to the continuing social exclusion of racial minorities, encourages a loss of trust in the fairness of our criminal justice system, and perpetuates criminalization (see N. Nichols, “The Social Organization of Access to Justice for Youth in ‘Unsafe’ Urban Neighbourhoods” (2018), 27 Soc. & Legal Stud. 79, at p. 86; see also Ontario Human Rights Commission, Under Suspicion: Research and Consultation Report on Racial Profiling in Ontario (2017), at pp. 31-40).
[96] These reports represent the most current statement on the relevant issues, and they originate from highly credible and authoritative sources. They are the product of research that included the time period at issue in this case. More importantly, they document actions and attitudes that have existed for a long time. A striking feature of these reports is how the conclusions and recommendations are so similar to studies done 10, 20, or even 30 years ago. These reports do not establish any new fact, but they build upon prior studies, research and reports and present a clear and comprehensive picture of what is currently occurring. Courts generally benefit from the most up to date and accurate information and, on a go-forward basis, these reports will clearly form part of the social context when determining whether there has been an arbitrary detention contrary to the Charter.
[97] We do not hesitate to find that, even without these most recent reports, we have arrived at a place where the research now shows disproportionate policing of racialized and low-income communities (see D. M. Tanovich, “Applying the Racial Profiling Correspondence Test” (2017), 64 C.L.Q. 359). Indeed, it is in this larger social context that the police entry into the backyard and questioning of Mr. Le and his friends must be approached. It was another example of a common and shared experience of racialized young men: being frequently targeted, stopped, and subjected to pointed and familiar questions. The documented history of the relations between police and racialized communities would have had an impact on the perceptions of a reasonable person in the shoes of the accused. When three officers entered a small, private backyard, without warrant, consent, or warning, late at night, to ask questions of five racialized young men in a Toronto housing co-operative, these young men would have felt compelled to remain, answer and comply.
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Last edited by Makarov; 08-28-2020 at 09:34 AM.
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I often participate in these types of threads but am late to this one. Its always disappointing to see some of the attitudes (and the misinformation on which they are based) that still exist in our community. Anyway, thought it might be helpful to post some recent (2019) comments from the Supreme Court of Canada on the topic of racialized persons' interactions with police in Canada:
