Let's Talk about the Calgary Police Service

[shogged]

I think that video is an example of officer restraint. The driver is lucky he didn’t get shot and I’m surprised the officer let him go on as long as he did before he stepped in.

[aaronck]

Well Duh- Just get out of the car man, seriously. I'm surprised he didn't just say he was travelling, not driving

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

There's nothing that can justify the police actions in that situation. He clearly escalated it in anger. If you're pointing a gun at someone, you need your emotions under check and should be able to take a minute to explain what's happening calmly before resorting to f bombs and respect-my-authority-small-dick syndrome.

What about CPS update? Seems justified to me.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Nope, won't convince me otherwise. If the guy was a flight risk, as he was, the cop should be doing everything to try to de-escalate the situation and call to have backup to prevent him from fleeing.

Instead he goes into an anger based tantrum making the situation worse and far more dangerous.

The driver is at fault as well, obviously, but a little bit of patience and composure shown from the officer may have prevented him from fleeing (if for no other reason as being blocked in by another police car). Instead the officer increased the flight risk, putting public safety in danger - all because he couldn't control his emotions.

It's sad that we expect more composure from grocery store workers dealing with anti-mask karens than we do our police.

[fulham]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Nope, won't convince me otherwise. If the guy was a flight risk, as he was, the cop should be doing everything to try to de-escalate the situation and call to have backup to prevent him from fleeing.

Instead he goes into an anger based tantrum making the situation worse and far more dangerous.

The driver is at fault as well, obviously, but a little bit of patience and composure shown from the officer may have prevented him from fleeing (if for no other reason as being blocked in by another police car). Instead the officer increased the flight risk, putting public safety in danger - all because he couldn't control his emotions.

It's sad that we expect more composure from grocery store workers dealing with anti-mask karens than we do our police.

There are issues generally with police training, and discrimination within law enforcement. However this is not an example of it.

I doubt the interaction started at the point where the cop was agitated, and probably fearing for his safety(rightfully so) with his gun drawn. Seeing people use this as an example of bad policing/racism is gross.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Nope, won't convince me otherwise. If the guy was a flight risk, as he was, the cop should be doing everything to try to de-escalate the situation and call to have backup to prevent him from fleeing.

Instead he goes into an anger based tantrum making the situation worse and far more dangerous.

The driver is at fault as well, obviously, but a little bit of patience and composure shown from the officer may have prevented him from fleeing (if for no other reason as being blocked in by another police car). Instead the officer increased the flight risk, putting public safety in danger - all because he couldn't control his emotions.

It's sad that we expect more composure from grocery store workers dealing with anti-mask karens than we do our police.

Now look, I am no CPS apologist.

So are you saying the CPS reviewed the body-cam, with the footage previous to what was shared, and are comfortable with it? Or not?

How do we know that he wasn't more cordial, at the beginning of the stop? We don't.

Unless we don't believe the CPS release, despite the body-cam footage, we can ascertain that this isn't some cover-up. The perp was dismissive, providing false info, and repetitively disobeyed the officer. He escalated by ignoring the officer's commands, as he was under arrest with fair reasoning.

The officer, doesn't just abide by the perp's ask to "quiet down", and exit the situation. We would have ####ing lawlessness. You're coming across as blindly against cops. I am one for police reform, and re-allocating police resources. But, at times of escalation an officer will be loud, and demanding of an evasive perp.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by metallicat

Jesus man, just tell us what the bumper sticker was. Christ.

Quick google seems to make this one a contender:

Jesus Saves!
(only homophobic white people)

I could see a Christian rural Alberta cop getting bent put of shape on that one.

[aaronck]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Nope, won't convince me otherwise. If the guy was a flight risk, as he was, the cop should be doing everything to try to de-escalate the situation and call to have backup to prevent him from fleeing.

Instead he goes into an anger based tantrum making the situation worse and far more dangerous.

The driver is at fault as well, obviously, but a little bit of patience and composure shown from the officer may have prevented him from fleeing (if for no other reason as being blocked in by another police car). Instead the officer increased the flight risk, putting public safety in danger - all because he couldn't control his emotions.

It's sad that we expect more composure from grocery store workers dealing with anti-mask karens than we do our police.

So, he refused all orders to shut off the car and/ or remove the keys from the ignition, plus like 25 direct orders to get out of the car (that were on the video, which could have been going on for 5 minutes or longer than we saw) and was reaching around and didn't seem to Honestly what was the officer to do? I don't know why the gun was out but the driver didn't seem bothered by it at all, which is also pretty alarming. He was told what he was under arrest for, obstruction, still didn't get out of the car or follow orders at all. I get the officer was frustrated, but I don't know how long you think this guy should have stayed put obstructing before things escalated. I really want to know how long you think this exchange should have gone on for? Until the officer's shift was done?

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by aaronck

I really want to know how long you think this exchange should have gone on for? Until the officer's shift was done?

Didn't you know? You can filibuster your arrest. ;P

[Locke]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

Didn't you know? You can filibuster your arrest. ;P

Justin Trudeau's been doing it for years.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Locke

Justin Trudeau's been doing it for years.

I lol’d

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I assume that guy is currently in custody, because just driving away like that alone is enough to warrant it. If the bodycam footage reflects what's in that statement, that is not only acceptable conduct but well done, in my view.

As for Oling's take, well, insert family guy donkey gif.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I assume that guy is currently in custody, because just driving away like that alone is enough to warrant it. If the bodycam footage reflects what's in that statement, that is not only acceptable conduct but well done, in my view.

As for Oling's take, well, insert family guy donkey gif.

The CPS statement says he drove off and has not been located.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Pretty surprising that no one can ID him from two videos and the fact that he's driving an older Audi with a busted window in the middle of winter.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Pretty surprising that no one can ID him

Oh, they likely know who he is. Finding him is a different story.

he's driving an older Audi with a busted window in the middle of winter.

He's likely not driving it anymore. It's probably been ditched somewhere. Possibly even out of town (where the RCMP would have to find it and report it back)

[Captain Otto]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Nope, won't convince me otherwise. If the guy was a flight risk, as he was, the cop should be doing everything to try to de-escalate the situation and call to have backup to prevent him from fleeing.

Instead he goes into an anger based tantrum making the situation worse and far more dangerous.

The driver is at fault as well, obviously, but a little bit of patience and composure shown from the officer may have prevented him from fleeing (if for no other reason as being blocked in by another police car). Instead the officer increased the flight risk, putting public safety in danger - all because he couldn't control his emotions.

It's sad that we expect more composure from grocery store workers dealing with anti-mask karens than we do our police.

I'm not sure what happened to you previously - bad experience or maybe just a lot of police interaction (ie. Criminal lifestyle), but how can you be so obtuse?

Can you elaborate on what your expectations are? Better yet, what would you do in that situation based in the news release. So you've stopped the vehicle, suspect it's stolen, and the driver is completely non-complaint. What do you do? When do you HAVE to do something?



Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Captain Otto

Can you elaborate on what your expectations are? Better yet, what would you do in that situation based in the news release. So you've stopped the vehicle, suspect it's stolen, and the driver is completely non-complaint. What do you do? When do you HAVE to do something?

First and foremost the role of police should be to ensure public safety. Always.

When he recognized this as a dangerous situation and flight risk, which was long before the video started, he should have called backup. Remain cordial as long as it takes backup to come, and have the vehicle blocked in to prevent it from fleeing. Smashing a window open in a fit of anger is never going to de-escalate the situation, we know this, he knows this, come on.

Having a 4000 pound dangerous weapon speeding away in an unsafe manner is the absolute worst case scenario as it's putting the public in danger. You can hear the passenger say they need to get out of there when the officer becomes unruly, which goes to show what we already knew, that he was escalating the situation - not de-escalating it - and increasing the chance of public harm because he couldn't remain calm and assess the situation properly.

Of course the driver was wrong as well, but this isn't binary. If you had a hostage negotiator tell a hostage taker "come on you're too much of a ##### to kill someone, you got lots of hostage, we don't believe you" he may not have done anything legally wrong, but he's not doing his job competently either.

If you guys can point to de-escalating training techniques that include hostile profanity-laced aggressive confrontation when they aren't necessary, I'll gladly debate that, but no where is this going to be used as proper de-escalation, it's going to go down as an example of what not to do to get a criminal to flee.

Resisting arrest in Canada can be up to a two-year sentence, waiting another three minutes to have another officer show up isn't going to get the guy out of trouble, it's likely going to increase his chances of a longer sentence while protecting the public. There was 0 reason for him to escalate things, it did no good, as we saw, and made it more dangerous.

Again, where is the harm in waiting for backup? There is about an additional 10 minutes of police resources used to ensure public safety, that's what we should be paying for. But you guys would rather get a justice boner seeing a window broken, even if it means some 6 year old being ran over by a fleeing criminal, it's insane.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

First and foremost the role of police should be to ensure public safety. Always.

When he recognized this as a dangerous situation and flight risk, which was long before the video started, he should have called backup. Remain cordial as long as it takes backup to come, and have the vehicle blocked in to prevent it from fleeing. Smashing a window open in a fit of anger is never going to de-escalate the situation, we know this, he knows this, come on.

Having a 4000 pound dangerous weapon speeding away in an unsafe manner is the absolute worse case scenario as it's putting the public in danger. You can hear the passenger say they need to get out of there when the officer becomes unruly, which goes to show what we already knew, that he was escalating the situation - not de-escalating it - and increasing the chance of public harm because he couldn't remain calm and assess the situation properly.

Of course the driver was wrong as well, but this isn't binary. If you had a hostage negotiator tell a hostage taker "come on you're too much of a ##### to kill someone, you got lots of hostage, prove us wrong with the first" he may not have done anything legally wrong, but he's not doing his job competently either.

If you guys can point to de-escalating training techniques that include hostile profanity-laced aggressive confrontation when they aren't necessary, I'll gladly debate that, but no where is this going to be used as proper de-escalation, it's going to go down as an example of what not to do to get a criminal to flee.

Resisting arrest in Canada can be up to a two-year sentence, waiting another three minutes to have another officer show up isn't going to get the guy out of trouble, it's likely going to increase his chances of a longer sentence while protecting the public. There was 0 reason for him to escalate things, it did not good, as we saw, and made it more dangerous.

Again, where is the harm in waiting for backup? There is about an additional 10 minutes of police resources used to ensure public safety, that's what we should be paying for.

You bring up a good point.
What de-escalation process did he perform, previous to the video being recorded?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

You bring up a good point.
What de-escalation process did he perform, previous to the video being recorded?

There's no time limit on de-escalation though. There's no time limit on public safety. If it meant another hour, for whatever reason, for backup to show, then that's an hour longer this cop need to remain calm and composed.

[krynski]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

There's no time limit on de-escalation though. There's no time limit on public safety. If it meant another hour, for whatever reason, for backup to show, then that's an hour longer this cop need to remain calm and composed.

I'm going to dissagree with you in some ways, but agree with you in some ways. Yes, there is no time limit on de-escalation, and there is no time limit on public safety. What about the officer's safety? In the CPS statement, it says that the accused was "reaching for items inside the vehicle, outside of officer view", and was clearly not following directions from the officer in question (about really anything, from what we can see in the video).

At this point, the officer IS authorized to use force necessary to take this person into custody, and ensure his or her own safety (the officer).

Yeah, maybe you can de-escalate for hours, but I'm not convinced you are going to arrive at a different outcome. Perhaps the best way to deal with this situation is for the officer to go back to his cruiser and radio in for a larger response, but one could argue that it would be escalation at that point?

There are always ways that you can look back on every scenario and say "Hey, he or she could have done that better.", but this is part of being humans attempting to interact and ensure the safety of other humans. It's never perfect regardless of how much training or how many sitautions you put people in, every interaction is different. However, I do believe we should always look at things like this so that we learn, improve, and move on.