I dunno how many games he will play but I would be surprised if Gazdic isn't the 14th forward. Why have a guy who needs dev time eating popcorn all year. Plus the flames are gonna get the crap kicked out of them this year without some kind of deterrent. They were soft last year and now they lost Engelland.
Hamonic will end up fighting a fair bit with just him and Ferland able... He has concussion issues as well.
Gotta keep Gazdic around for 10-20 games to protect your investments and team morale imo.
I dunno how many games he will play but I would be surprised if Gazdic isn't the 14th forward. Why have a guy who needs dev time eating popcorn all year. Plus the flames are gonna get the crap kicked out of them this year without some kind of deterrent. They were soft last year and now they lost Engelland.
Hamonic will end up fighting a fair bit with just him and Ferland able... He has concussion issues as well.
Gotta keep Gazdic around for 10-20 games to protect your investments and team morale imo.
The Flames aren't a tremendously small team anymore - in the top nine alone, the only guys who are undersized are Johnny and Bennett. Versteeg doesn't need anyone to protect him. Ferland plays with Johnny.
Brouwer is there for face punching if we must go down that road. Between he, Lazar, Tkachuk, Hamonic, Stone, Ferland, Bennett, and Gio, there are more than enough people that can fight.
Nobody carries heavyweights on the roster, and that's the only person who fights a Gadzic type.
Now, the AHL is a jungle with no rules - I buy that you need that sort of player in Stockton. They have no place on the big club.
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Mom and Dad love you, Rowan - February 15, 2024
Grossman played 3 games. It cost the team nothing in terms of the cap. They lost the first three games 7-4, 5-3 and 2-1 in a shootout; there's only so much blame that can lay at the hands of the 6th defenseman.
Giving the rest of the team the benefit of the doubt, they still win at most two of those first three games, which still has them 4th in the division.
Grossman, as he's always been, is irrelevant.
Do you not remember how truly bad Grossman was?
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Originally Posted by CroFlames
Before you call me a pessimist or a downer, the Flames made me this way. Blame them.
Do you not remember how truly bad everyone was the first three games?
Yes Grossman was bad. So was Elliott, Johnny, Gio, Brodie, Dougie, Monahan, Brouwer, pretty much everyone wasn't Backlund or Frolik.
The Flames were more than a weak 6th away from winning those games. Edmonton ran their show for two nights. The players I listed combined to make $43.95M - had they not all been atrocious, then maybe it's fair to blame the 6th D making 500 grand.
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Mom and Dad love you, Rowan - February 15, 2024
Last edited by GreenLantern2814; 09-05-2017 at 05:56 PM.
The Flames aren't a tremendously small team anymore - in the top nine alone, the only guys who are undersized are Johnny and Bennett. Versteeg doesn't need anyone to protect him. Ferland plays with Johnny.
Bennett is nowhere near being undersized. Strange comment. Did you mean Versteeg? Versteeg and Gaudreau are the only forwards under 6'0. Lazar is more undersized in terms of height than Bennett.
The Flames aren't a tremendously small team anymore - in the top nine alone, the only guys who are undersized are Johnny and Bennett. Versteeg doesn't need anyone to protect him. Ferland plays with Johnny.
Brouwer is there for face punching if we must go down that road. Between he, Lazar, Tkachuk, Hamonic, Stone, Ferland, Bennett, and Gio, there are more than enough people that can fight.
Nobody carries heavyweights on the roster, and that's the only person who fights a Gadzic type.
Now, the AHL is a jungle with no rules - I buy that you need that sort of player in Stockton. They have no place on the big club.
While guys like Monahan, Backlund, Frolik, etc are not small most of them can't stand up for themselves if a guy like Kassian starts doing his thing with them in the crosshairs. Size is irrelevant. A guy like Lomberg is a buzzsaw and Monahan is twice his size but runs away from conflict.
Flames have to play Edmonton 5 or 6 times this year, plus pre-season and quite possibly playoffs. They have 5 guys who are average-strong fighters and their team will take liberties when a game gets out of hand or even if they perceive some slight (like someone bumps McLoser the wrong way) ; Maroon, Lucic, Kassian, Gryba, Nurse. While I think they are stupid for carrying Kassian, Gryba and Nurse when they already have two heavies who can play and that will cost them a couple games in the regular season, the Flames would be stupid to ignore that element completely.
Ferland is basically responsible for stepping up to all and any of the 5 of those guys if anything goes sidways. Then he's off the ice and you've got Hamonic fighting a heavyweight with a history of concussions? Brouwer has shown he is disinterested in fighting anymore... he had 1 fight all last year.
Engelland being gone means the Flames need to keep Gadzic around imo. If they don't, someone will end up with a broken jaw like happened to Gagner when the Oilers went soft a few years ago.
Game is changing but has not changed totally yet. It would be better to have a couple middleweights who can play than a heavyweight, but the flames don't have that luxury. Gazdic doesn't need dev time, can munch popcorn without any harm, throw him in the pressbox and put him in the lineup occasionally when needed for 10-20 games. Maybe pass him through waivers early and even send him down for a couple stretches, but they better have him ready for games that might boil over.
While guys like Monahan, Backlund, Frolik, etc are not small most of them can't stand up for themselves if a guy like Kassian starts doing his thing with them in the crosshairs. Size is irrelevant. A guy like Lomberg is a buzzsaw and Monahan is twice his size but runs away from conflict.
Flames have to play Edmonton 5 or 6 times this year, plus pre-season and quite possibly playoffs. They have 5 guys who are average-strong fighters and their team will take liberties when a game gets out of hand or even if they perceive some slight (like someone bumps McLoser the wrong way) ; Maroon, Lucic, Kassian, Gryba, Nurse. While I think they are stupid for carrying Kassian, Gryba and Nurse when they already have two heavies who can play and that will cost them a couple games in the regular season, the Flames would be stupid to ignore that element completely.
Ferland is basically responsible for stepping up to all and any of the 5 of those guys if anything goes sidways. Then he's off the ice and you've got Hamonic fighting a heavyweight with a history of concussions? Brouwer has shown he is disinterested in fighting anymore... he had 1 fight all last year.
Engelland being gone means the Flames need to keep Gadzic around imo. If they don't, someone will end up with a broken jaw like happened to Gagner when the Oilers went soft a few years ago.
Game is changing but has not changed totally yet. It would be better to have a couple middleweights who can play than a heavyweight, but the flames don't have that luxury. Gazdic doesn't need dev time, can munch popcorn without any harm, throw him in the pressbox and put him in the lineup occasionally when needed for 10-20 games. Maybe pass him through waivers early and even send him down for a couple stretches, but they better have him ready for games that might boil over.
Reaching much? Monahan, Backlund, Frolik... these guys aren't bothered one iota by a Kassian or Lucic. They're focused on the actual game, not toughness.
Singling them out would be like saying McDavid, Nugent Hopkins, Strome, and Caggiula want no part of Tkachuk, Bennett, Ferland, Lazar, Brouwer. True, and just as meaningless.
Flames have moe than enough toughness. We don't have enough 5 on 5 goal scoring though. Which tends to get overlooked for some reason.
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I do. -4 in just three games. Was directly responsible for at least two goals. I hope the Flames management and coaches remember this when they next consider going with size over skill, even on the third pairing.
Reaching much? Monahan, Backlund, Frolik... these guys aren't bothered one iota by a Kassian or Lucic. They're focused on the actual game, not toughness.
Singling them out would be like saying McDavid, Nugent Hopkins, Strome, and Caggiula want no part of Tkachuk, Bennett, Ferland, Lazar, Brouwer. True, and just as meaningless.
Flames have moe than enough toughness. We don't have enough 5 on 5 goal scoring though. Which tends to get overlooked for some reason.
95% of the time it is irrelevant and Monahan or Frolik can skate away after the whistle. But there are moments that boil over late in hockey games or after incidents where it doesn't matter if you try your best to avoid conflict. Not only is the risk of injury there but I think some players' confidence just gets destroyed when your group gets bullied and doesn't push back... I think Gaudreau is one of those guys.
Citing Lazar, Bennett and Tkachuk as tough guys is naive. Those guys probably have 4 or 5 pro fights collectively and would get hurt if they tried to fight a good fighter. Tkachuk probably makes it worse... Having a superpest on a soft team is a recipe for disaster. Even Gio who is probably a better fighter than any of them should not be fighting tough guys... He had a black eye for a month the last time he fought Bieksa.
And the argument that you take the powerplay and beat the other team on the scoreboard doesn't work... If its a 2-2 game that matters sure but if you're winning 5-0 and the other team runs your goalie or hurts Gaudreau a 2 or 5 minute PP is meaningless. The situations where it goes sideways don't happen in close games where PPs matter.
I'm not an old time hockey guy. I like the direction the league is moving. But reality is our biggest rival has a tough, nasty team with some guys who take liberties and the flames need to plan for it.
Not by adding 5 guys who can't play but carrying Gazdic as #14 forward would do more good than harm.
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Do you not remember how truly bad everyone was the first three games?
Yes Grossman was bad. So was Elliott, Johnny, Gio, Brodie, Dougie, Monahan, Brouwer, pretty much everyone wasn't Backlund or Frolik.
The Flames were more than a weak 6th away from winning those games. Edmonton ran their show for two nights. The players I listed combined to make $43.95M - had they not all been atrocious, then maybe it's fair to blame the 6th D making 500 grand.
Revisionist history. We were let down by poor goaltending and horrendous gaffs like that Grossman ones and phantom calls like McDavid's penalty shot call for a Wideman tap, when the Referees turned into Stevie Wonder on the other end when Larsson and Nugent Hopkins almost hacked the ribs off of Gaudreau
skip to 57:07 even in the commentators own words: "hooked from behind, no penalty called)
Even the Puljujarvi goal was weak. Questionable turnover under pressure by Engelland and laughable weak shot to allow by Elliott (a continuing theme that we'd see for the rest of the season)
So that's three out of seven goals allowed that were suspect, and then an empty netter to intensify the score even more.
We dominated them on the shot chart (41 to 28) and the faceoff dot (60% to 40%). Hits, blocked shots and giveaways were nearly identical. And they had 7 powerplays to our 4 (not counting that weak penalty shot call). It was a night where the refs wanted to be the stars of the show and we couldn't get the adequate goaltending or defending to do anything about it.
If Smith can give us some consistent goaltending (big if). That coupled with the fact that Hamonic and Stone are CLEAR upgrades over Wideman, Jokipakka and Engelland. And all of the guys are comfortable with Gully as a coach/person and know his system. Lead me to believe that we'll see a different outcome of the BOA next season
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95% of the time it is irrelevant and Monahan or Frolik can skate away after the whistle. But there are moments that boil over late in hockey games or after incidents where it doesn't matter if you try your best to avoid conflict. Not only is the risk of injury there but I think some players' confidence just gets destroyed when your group gets bullied and doesn't push back... I think Gaudreau is one of those guys.
Citing Lazar, Bennett and Tkachuk as tough guys is naive. Those guys probably have 4 or 5 pro fights collectively and would get hurt if they tried to fight a good fighter. Tkachuk probably makes it worse... Having a superpest on a soft team is a recipe for disaster. Even Gio who is probably a better fighter than any of them should not be fighting tough guys... He had a black eye for a month the last time he fought Bieksa.
And the argument that you take the powerplay and beat the other team on the scoreboard doesn't work... If its a 2-2 game that matters sure but if you're winning 5-0 and the other team runs your goalie or hurts Gaudreau a 2 or 5 minute PP is meaningless. The situations where it goes sideways don't happen in close games where PPs matter.
I'm not an old time hockey guy. I like the direction the league is moving. But reality is our biggest rival has a tough, nasty team with some guys who take liberties and the flames need to plan for it.
Not by adding 5 guys who can't play but carrying Gazdic as #14 forward would do more good than harm.
The presence or Absense of Gadzic on the ice for 6 minutes in no way changes anything that you posted.
95% of the time it is irrelevant and Monahan or Frolik can skate away after the whistle. But there are moments that boil over late in hockey games or after incidents where it doesn't matter if you try your best to avoid conflict. Not only is the risk of injury there but I think some players' confidence just gets destroyed when your group gets bullied and doesn't push back... I think Gaudreau is one of those guys.
This never happened though? The Ducks never pushed us around in the Playoffs. The Kings didn't push us around during the Tkachuk/Doughty saga. And neither did the Oilers, ever last season.
I feel like Flame fans have that Darryl Sutter / Brian Burke 'truculence' philosophy branded into their brains. We were a lot more physical than either the Predators or the Penguins last season. I think that says enough.
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I think it's rare today that games do boil over, seems like 2-5 games a year depending on the team. The playoffs are a different beast, they're tough but fighting is almost irrelevant, the Ducks wanted to beat the Flames on the ice not in the alley. Gazdic should not be playing a regular shift in the postseason but would help get through an 80 game grind if only for those street fight games. The Flames wilted in that Kings game... they did not answer the bell. 2 or 3 guys stepped up and much of the rest of the team looked scared to me and LA walked over them. I don't think Gazdic will fix that himself unfortunately, but I don't think it is as much of a problem come playoffs and it only happens once every couple months even in the regular season.
Regular season, especially against your closest rival in a Canadian city is a bit different. The environment at Calgary Edmonton games is a little more tense and over the years I've seen a lot more fights during those games on ice and in the stands than at normal NHL games. I personally don't believe there are any games Nashville plays in the regular season with a comparable attitude to the Flames playing in Edmonton midwinter in front of a stadium half of which is drunk oil workers. I am from up that way and the dynamic and atmosphere is different. And this iteration of the Oilers is loaded with fighters. If Calgary blows them out, vice versa, or someone gets hurt in a way the other team doesn't like, guys will start taking liberties on a team that has as many goons as Edmonton. And like I said you don't load up on goons to address it, but have Gazdic there for those games so guys like Gaudreau keep their confidence intact.
Totally admit it is not something you can prove, but for me, carrying enough toughness does make a difference to some of the guys on your team psychologically and gives them more confidence.
I think his reactions to all the slashes last year and going out of his way to welcome Gazdic, a guy who on paper and stats would be in the A, tell us that this dimension is important to Johnny and I'd bet other players as well.
I just don't see enough harm in carrying Gazdic as the 14th forward either. I think guys like Shinkaruk or Jankowski if that is who it comes down to, are better served playing regularly or being in the A anyway.
I think Gazdic probably should only play 10-25 games and like I said, when fighting is gone I'll be happy about that and feel better about taking my kids to games, but the Flames need to deal with the reality of the league and division they are in.
I think it's rare today that games do boil over, seems like 2-5 games a year depending on the team. The playoffs are a different beast, they're tough but fighting is almost irrelevant, the Ducks wanted to beat the Flames on the ice not in the alley. Gazdic should not be playing a regular shift in the postseason but would help get through an 80 game grind if only for those street fight games. The Flames wilted in that Kings game... they did not answer the bell. 2 or 3 guys stepped up and much of the rest of the team looked scared to me and LA walked over them. I don't think Gazdic will fix that himself unfortunately, but I don't think it is as much of a problem come playoffs and it only happens once every couple months even in the regular season.
Regular season, especially against your closest rival in a Canadian city is a bit different. The environment at Calgary Edmonton games is a little more tense and over the years I've seen a lot more fights during those games on ice and in the stands than at normal NHL games. I personally don't believe there are any games Nashville plays in the regular season with a comparable attitude to the Flames playing in Edmonton midwinter in front of a stadium half of which is drunk oil workers. I am from up that way and the dynamic and atmosphere is different. And this iteration of the Oilers is loaded with fighters. If Calgary blows them out, vice versa, or someone gets hurt in a way the other team doesn't like, guys will start taking liberties on a team that has as many goons as Edmonton. And like I said you don't load up on goons to address it, but have Gazdic there for those games so guys like Gaudreau keep their confidence intact.
Totally admit it is not something you can prove, but for me, carrying enough toughness does make a difference to some of the guys on your team psychologically and gives them more confidence.
I think his reactions to all the slashes last year and going out of his way to welcome Gazdic, a guy who on paper and stats would be in the A, tell us that this dimension is important to Johnny and I'd bet other players as well.
I just don't see enough harm in carrying Gazdic as the 14th forward either. I think guys like Shinkaruk or Jankowski if that is who it comes down to, are better served playing regularly or being in the A anyway.
I think Gazdic probably should only play 10-25 games and like I said, when fighting is gone I'll be happy about that and feel better about taking my kids to games, but the Flames need to deal with the reality of the league and division they are in.
I doubt Gazdic plays 1 game for the Flames.
Hathaway is just as tough, and about 10x the player.
It was a night where the refs wanted to be the stars of the show
This is always going to be the case with the Oilers. For whatever reason, the media and league loves them and they will be favoured over the Flames for the next little while. Probably has something to do with them being losers for so long, like the Cubs and everyone just wants to see them have some success now.
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Calgary Flames, PLEASE GO TO THE NET! AND SHOOT THE PUCK! GENERATING OFFENSE IS NOT DIFFICULT! SKATE HARD, SHOOT HARD, CRASH THE NET HARD!
Hathaway is just as tough, and about 10x the player.
Hathaway is going to need to be ten times as tough, because if he tries to tangle with Lucic, Kassian, or Maroon, he's going to be eating a lot of punches.
I think that Glass has a better chance of filling that 13 forward role than Gazdic. Glass has always been a decent skater and 4th line role player. Glass played 20 games in the Canucks playoff run in 2011 and that team was stacked. He's not just a goon and in recent years, he's tangled with some pretty tough customers in the higher weight classes and done well.
It wouldn't shock me to see Glass win a spot over a Gazdic and Freddie Hamilton and if Hathaway does't hit everything he sees in the pre-season, Glass might even play over Hathaway.
Glass has always been a much better player than Gazdic and still is.
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Calgary Flames, PLEASE GO TO THE NET! AND SHOOT THE PUCK! GENERATING OFFENSE IS NOT DIFFICULT! SKATE HARD, SHOOT HARD, CRASH THE NET HARD!
