2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Who's God are you thanking now? Im offended!

I'm a Kipprusafarian.

[IliketoPuck]

The real question about Chabot is should I pick him up in my fantasy keeper league?

[GreenLantern2814]

I'll start a firestorm and say that I would trade TJ Brodie straight up for Matt Duchene right now now. Why? Glad you asked.

First of all, look at the big star player deals in recent memory. Weber for Subban. Hall for Larsson. Johanson for Jones. They are one for one deals. No prospects, no 1st round picks, nothing. When you trade established star players with term, you get back one player of equal or lesser value.

For all the talk of building a defense to compete with Connor McDavid, we might consider looking at this from another angle. Johnny and Sean combine to make $7.9M less than McDavid and Draisaitl. The contracts of our star players allow us to afford an extra star player plus something else.

Further to this point, if we're building to beat the Oilers, our forwards are going against a top 3 of Larsson, Klefbom and Russell? Nurse? Sekara?

Johnny, Monahan, Duchene
3M
Ferland-Bennett-Versteeg
Stajan-Jankowski-Brouwer
Lazar/whoever

Gio-Dougie
Hamonic-Stone
Kulak-Bartkowski

Now I know that defense doesn't inspire as much love as it would with a 24/7 pairing, but look at who wins the Stanley Cup.

Chicago: Keith plays have the game, Seabrook and Hjalmarsson battle, Oduya is a decent puck mover on the 2nd pair, and the 3rd pair plays ten minutes. Michael Roszival, Kimmo Timmonen, and Trevor van Riemsdyk are the calibre of player we're talking about here.

LA: Doughty is head and shoulders the best D on the team during the Kings first run. Then you've got Voynov *no slouch*, Martinez, Willie Big Stick, Rob Scuderi, and Matt Greene. Guys who get the job done, but who have never come close to 40 points and never will. And that's fine. The next time around, they added a noobish Jake Muzzin and a last legs Regehr.

Pittsburgh has always won with a group of Letang and friends - last year they won with 'And Friends'.

Calgary has that Norris calibre player in Gio. When he starts his decline (which may or may not happen, defensemen age differently) we have Dougie.

The goaltending still remains the biggest question mark, but the forward depth of this team with Matt Duchene is an awfully tempting gamble to make.

The only reason I'd be reticent is this: Duchene is up in 2 years - same as Bennett and Tkachuk. The year after that, Frolik, Brouwer, Stone, and Hamonic all come off the books. The timing sucks, because I don't see how you retain Duchene in that scenario.


Flame away.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Gio-Dougie
Hamonic-Stone
Kulak-Bartkowski

No.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

No.

Whoever. The bottom pairing could be anyone, they just need to be able to scrap and claw their way through 12 minutes a night.

So not Kulak/Bartkowski. But people.

[TheIronMaiden]

Interesting point of view. I agree that the cost for Duchene is likely comparable to Brodie.

However, after watching Kulak and Bartowski play together I doubt that the Flames management is comfortable with that bottom pairing. Also, the Flames are not quite in win now mode. Next year would be a more convenient year to move defensive prospects into player positions or to other teams.

For now I am happy for the Flames to stay pat. I don't think that scoring is such a large concern and the Flames wont make this move just cause they can .

[Mass_nerder]

I think you build from the goal out (goal>defense>centers>wingers).
In my opinion, sacrificing one of the most solid top 4 defensemen in favor of a winger makes no sense.
Duchene is a guy you go for if you can have the right combo of picks/prospects, not a guy you give up a core piece of your team to get. I don't see us as having the right assets to let go at this time.

[GoJetsGo]

Bonus points for suggesting a trade that is more realistic in acquisition cost...

but I see no way Treliving spent that much time and cost putting together that blue-line only to dismantle it before the season.

I wouldn't do it, and don't think it's very plausible as far as actually happening goes... but the value is much closer than some of the ridiculous proposals earlier in the thread.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I'll start a firestorm and say that I would trade TJ Brodie straight up for Matt Duchene right now now. Why? Glad you asked.

First of all, look at the big star player deals in recent memory. Weber for Subban. Hall for Larsson. Johanson for Jones. They are one for one deals. No prospects, no 1st round picks, nothing. When you trade established star players with term, you get back one player of equal or lesser value.

For all the talk of building a defense to compete with Connor McDavid, we might consider looking at this from another angle. Johnny and Sean combine to make $7.9M less than McDavid and Draisaitl. The contracts of our star players allow us to afford an extra star player plus something else.

Further to this point, if we're building to beat the Oilers, our forwards are going against a top 3 of Larsson, Klefbom and Russell? Nurse? Sekara?

Johnny, Monahan, Duchene
3M
Ferland-Bennett-Versteeg
Stajan-Jankowski-Brouwer
Lazar/whoever

Gio-Dougie
Hamonic-Stone
Kulak-Bartkowski

Now I know that defense doesn't inspire as much love as it would with a 24/7 pairing, but look at who wins the Stanley Cup.

Chicago: Keith plays have the game, Seabrook and Hjalmarsson battle, Oduya is a decent puck mover on the 2nd pair, and the 3rd pair plays ten minutes. Michael Roszival, Kimmo Timmonen, and Trevor van Riemsdyk are the calibre of player we're talking about here.

LA: Doughty is head and shoulders the best D on the team during the Kings first run. Then you've got Voynov *no slouch*, Martinez, Willie Big Stick, Rob Scuderi, and Matt Greene. Guys who get the job done, but who have never come close to 40 points and never will. And that's fine. The next time around, they added a noobish Jake Muzzin and a last legs Regehr.

Pittsburgh has always won with a group of Letang and friends - last year they won with 'And Friends'.

Calgary has that Norris calibre player in Gio. When he starts his decline (which may or may not happen, defensemen age differently) we have Dougie.

The goaltending still remains the biggest question mark, but the forward depth of this team with Matt Duchene is an awfully tempting gamble to make.

The only reason I'd be reticent is this: Duchene is up in 2 years - same as Bennett and Tkachuk. The year after that, Frolik, Brouwer, Stone, and Hamonic all come off the books. The timing sucks, because I don't see how you retain Duchene in that scenario.


Flame away.

I'd personally like to see the Hamonic and Brodie project play out before tearing it apart.

And given the value of mobile top pairing defencemen, I'd be more inclined to deal Brodie for a TOP flight forward which I don't view Duchene as.

I also don't see Colorado making the deal, as getting an in his prime Brodie doesn't help their future much. Need to be a younger asset IMO

[Love]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I'll start a firestorm and say that I would trade TJ Brodie straight up for Matt Duchene right now now. Why? Glad you asked.

First of all, look at the big star player deals in recent memory. Weber for Subban. Hall for Larsson. Johanson for Jones. They are one for one deals. No prospects, no 1st round picks, nothing. When you trade established star players with term, you get back one player of equal or lesser value.

For all the talk of building a defense to compete with Connor McDavid, we might consider looking at this from another angle. Johnny and Sean combine to make $7.9M less than McDavid and Draisaitl. The contracts of our star players allow us to afford an extra star player plus something else.

Further to this point, if we're building to beat the Oilers, our forwards are going against a top 3 of Larsson, Klefbom and Russell? Nurse? Sekara?

Johnny, Monahan, Duchene
3M
Ferland-Bennett-Versteeg
Stajan-Jankowski-Brouwer
Lazar/whoever

Gio-Dougie
Hamonic-Stone
Kulak-Bartkowski

Now I know that defense doesn't inspire as much love as it would with a 24/7 pairing, but look at who wins the Stanley Cup.

Chicago: Keith plays have the game, Seabrook and Hjalmarsson battle, Oduya is a decent puck mover on the 2nd pair, and the 3rd pair plays ten minutes. Michael Roszival, Kimmo Timmonen, and Trevor van Riemsdyk are the calibre of player we're talking about here.

LA: Doughty is head and shoulders the best D on the team during the Kings first run. Then you've got Voynov *no slouch*, Martinez, Willie Big Stick, Rob Scuderi, and Matt Greene. Guys who get the job done, but who have never come close to 40 points and never will. And that's fine. The next time around, they added a noobish Jake Muzzin and a last legs Regehr.

Pittsburgh has always won with a group of Letang and friends - last year they won with 'And Friends'.

Calgary has that Norris calibre player in Gio. When he starts his decline (which may or may not happen, defensemen age differently) we have Dougie.

The goaltending still remains the biggest question mark, but the forward depth of this team with Matt Duchene is an awfully tempting gamble to make.

The only reason I'd be reticent is this: Duchene is up in 2 years - same as Bennett and Tkachuk. The year after that, Frolik, Brouwer, Stone, and Hamonic all come off the books. The timing sucks, because I don't see how you retain Duchene in that scenario.


Flame away.

Bennett still getting the left overs huh

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Duchene wouldn't be played at centre here IMO. Therefore he's a winger which is the least important position in hockey. He isn't on a sweetheart deal and he's only signed for 2 years and will be looking for more. Personally I don't think he's a more important piece than Tkachuk, Monahan, Gaudreau or Backlund.

Brodie meanwhile plays the more important position. Brodie is on a sweetheart deal.

No chance I'd do a Brodie for Duchene deal. Rather sign a Jagr for a winger spot for free. Or acquire a winger at the deadline for a prospect if it proves to be a need over the course of the year.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

I'd personally like to see the Hamonic and Brodie project play out before tearing it apart.

And given the value of mobile top pairing defencemen, I'd be more inclined to deal Brodie for a TOP flight forward which I don't view Duchene as.

I also don't see Colorado making the deal, as getting an in his prime Brodie doesn't help their future much. Need to be a younger asset IMO

They're not going to get a younger asset though - star players who are in their mid-20s don't get these packages. Unless you're a veteran on an expiring deal, you're not returning a 1st round+ - you're getting something of similar value.

Brodie is under contract for three more years, and he's 25, 26? All of a sudden, the Avs top 3 is Brodie, Erik Johnson, and Zadorov/Barrie. That's not bad. MacKinnon as the #1C. And as much as we'd like to hold out on moving Brodie, a Duchene/Hall calibre player is about what he's going to return. At least with Duchene, you get a player who was selected to the last two teams Hockey Canada sent to tournament competition.

Duchene has been in the league eight years - he has five 50+ point seasons, playing on some dog#### Avs teams. He's well over 50% on faceoffs, last year he was over 60%.

Duchene would, production wise, be a Sean Monahan level centre man. He would likely cost you Backlund at the end of the year, but I think you live with that and let Bennett/Janko sort out the bottom two lines.

I don't think this happens, and I agree that Treliving didn't spend all this money and time setting up the blue line to trade Brodie on the eve of the season. I just think, value wise, that's all I'm prepared to give up.

[iloveicedhockey]

The problem with Duchene, and others have mentioned, is the two year term. You can't tie him down long term yet and it could essentially be a long rental; a lot can happen in a year. Most teams who you'd think Duchene could push over the edge may actually be worse off if they traded a decent second pairing guy (and picks), or don't have the assets sakic wants.

I'll be very surprised if he gets a better offer than Hamonic and a 1st.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I'll start a firestorm and say that I would trade TJ Brodie straight up for Matt Duchene right now now. Why? Glad you asked.

First of all, look at the big star player deals in recent memory. Weber for Subban. Hall for Larsson. Johanson for Jones. They are one for one deals. No prospects, no 1st round picks, nothing. When you trade established star players with term, you get back one player of equal or lesser value.

For all the talk of building a defense to compete with Connor McDavid, we might consider looking at this from another angle. Johnny and Sean combine to make $7.9M less than McDavid and Draisaitl. The contracts of our star players allow us to afford an extra star player plus something else.

Further to this point, if we're building to beat the Oilers, our forwards are going against a top 3 of Larsson, Klefbom and Russell? Nurse? Sekara?

Johnny, Monahan, Duchene
3M
Ferland-Bennett-Versteeg
Stajan-Jankowski-Brouwer
Lazar/whoever

Gio-Dougie
Hamonic-Stone
Kulak-Bartkowski

Now I know that defense doesn't inspire as much love as it would with a 24/7 pairing, but look at who wins the Stanley Cup.

Chicago: Keith plays have the game, Seabrook and Hjalmarsson battle, Oduya is a decent puck mover on the 2nd pair, and the 3rd pair plays ten minutes. Michael Roszival, Kimmo Timmonen, and Trevor van Riemsdyk are the calibre of player we're talking about here.

LA: Doughty is head and shoulders the best D on the team during the Kings first run. Then you've got Voynov *no slouch*, Martinez, Willie Big Stick, Rob Scuderi, and Matt Greene. Guys who get the job done, but who have never come close to 40 points and never will. And that's fine. The next time around, they added a noobish Jake Muzzin and a last legs Regehr.

Pittsburgh has always won with a group of Letang and friends - last year they won with 'And Friends'.

Calgary has that Norris calibre player in Gio. When he starts his decline (which may or may not happen, defensemen age differently) we have Dougie.

The goaltending still remains the biggest question mark, but the forward depth of this team with Matt Duchene is an awfully tempting gamble to make.

The only reason I'd be reticent is this: Duchene is up in 2 years - same as Bennett and Tkachuk. The year after that, Frolik, Brouwer, Stone, and Hamonic all come off the books. The timing sucks, because I don't see how you retain Duchene in that scenario.


Flame away.

I respect the effort put into this proposal.

I don't agree, but there is rationale there.

[Badgers Nose]

NVM not the time for humour.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I respect the effort put into this proposal.

I don't agree, but there is rationale there.

That's all I can ask

[bigrangy]

Duchene would be not quite enough value for Brodie for me.

MacKinnon would be closer straight up, though his value would be higher but mostly due to hype value more than actual hockey performance value.

Just like Hall-Larsson, Larsson was comfortably the better hockey player at the time and Chia cashed in on the 1st overall hype and overinflated reputation that Hall had.

[sureLoss]

FWIW

Adrian Dater‏Verified account @adater
Scouts from Canucks, Canadiens, Ducks (two scouts), Blues, Flames, Devils and Sabres on hand for Avs, with Duchene in lineup

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

FWIW

Adrian Dater‏Verified account @adater
Scouts from Canucks, Canadiens, Ducks (two scouts), Blues, Flames, Devils and Sabres on hand for Avs, with Duchene in lineup

Pffft, we're not after Duchene, it's Colborne we want....

[AC]

Duchene would be a huge add. I can't imagine a package the Flames would be willing to offer that would also work for Colorado though.

Flames would likely only be in a position to offer some prospects and picks, and "throw-in" level NHL players. But I don't see Colorado being interested.