2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

He's a career high 17 goal scorer, to me that isn't first line material on a Stanley cup winning team. I'm not ignoring the stats, I never said he was a bad player. I just think that a top 6 consisting of both Mangiapane and Dube in 2021-22 will not go very far. Dube is only 22 and will only get better.

If your goal is to change Calgary into a Stanley Cup champion team overnight, prepare to be disappointed.

I think the goal is to make them better next season. If you get Eichel, yes there will be holes in the top 6 likely.

Maybe the next season Zary and Pelletier earn spots.


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[Roof-Daddy]

Good lord I hope Seattle isn't able to pull a "Vegas" off.

Two teams like that in our division...yikes.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

^^

I think you are struggling to justify keeping your favorite players together after an Eichel trade.

And Dube drove plenty of the play on that line.

I think I've made same extremely valid points actually. Honestly, if this team had listened to what I had to say at the start of the season, the Flames would probably be in the playoffs right now. I personally didn't like the new line up decisions from training camp. I gave it a week or so, but it never improved and it's the biggest reason this season has been such a disaster. I also wanted a Gio with Tanev pairing the day Tanev signed here. Lo and behold, those things I forecasted finally occurred and it was by far the best month the Flames had played.

But if you'd prefer to go into next season with your favorite center Sean Monahan playing the wing, Treliving as GM, 4 brand new lines again and another potential rocky start, by all means.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I think I've made same extremely valid points actually. Honestly, if this team had listened to what I had to say at the start of the season, the Flames would probably be in the playoffs right now. I personally didn't like the new line up decisions from training camp. I gave it a week or so, but it never improved and it's the biggest reason this season has been such a disaster. I also wanted a Gio with Tanev pairing the day Tanev signed here. Lo and behold, those things I forecasted finally occurred and it was by far the best month the Flames had played.

But if you'd prefer to go into next season with Monahan on the wing, Treliving as GM, 4 brand new lines again and another potential rocky start, by all means.

Well, aren’t you just the smartest!

I think (a) you haven’t seen my vote in the Treliving poll, (b) you have totally unrealistic notions of an Eichel trade and (c), the Flames are just not good enough as it is, and even if they’d clawed their way past Montreal, they’d have lost in quick fashion anyway.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

A. People are saying Mangiapane is top 6 not “first line”.

B. Mangiapane’s career high 17 came in only 68 games. He has 16 in only 54 this year. He’s a 20 man, for all intents and purposes.

B. What’s Ondrej Palat’s career high goals? 23, but that was back in 13-14. Last year he scored 17, which tied his career high since that year. What’s Donskoi’s career high? Oh - 17.

A. Literally the first post I quoted did, which started this whole conversation (posted again below)

B. I love it when people argue posts without actually taking 2 minutes to read what they are arguing.

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

You could even move Monahan to the wing.

Gaudreau - Eichel - Mangiapane
Monahan - Lindholm - Dube
M. Lucic - Backlund -


Elite center depth IMO

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

A. Literally the first post I quoted did, which started this whole conversation (posted again below)

B. I love it when people argue posts without actually taking 2 minutes to read what they are arguing.

The post in question said he produced at a first liner clip, which he does, if you look at some of the guys who are on various first lines. It didn’t say he should be on the first line.

But you want him on the 3rd line.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, aren’t you just the smartest!

I think (a) you haven’t seen my vote in the Treliving poll, (b) you have totally unrealistic notions of an Eichel trade and (c), the Flames are just not good enough as it is, and even if they’d clawed their way past Montreal, they’d have lost in quick fashion anyway.

Your sarcasm aside, just as an FYI, I've actually been a huge fan of the Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk line since last season. They had a outstanding couple of games together in 2019, so I've always appreciated their chemistry together.

a) No, I haven't even voted myself yet.
b) Maybe, but that's the only why I do an Eichel trade. I'm not going to give up futures along with creating more holes in already depleted side of the team so the Flames can add an oft injured #1 center. As good as Eichel is, I'd rather keep Tkachuk + the extras.
c) I think the Flames played Toronto very well this season and had a shot of beating them in 7. But yes, I do ultimately agree, they're not that good and are a very flawed team. So even if they were somehow crowned King of the North, Vegas or Colorado would've eaten this team alive.

[NewFan]

For cup contender team this team has:
Gaudreau - No one - No one
Tkachuk - Lindholm - No one
Monahan - Backlund - Mangiapane
Lucic - Stone - Dube

No one - Tanev
Hanifin - Andersson
Gio/Valimaki - No one /PP guy/

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The post in question said he produced at a first liner clip, which he does, if you look at some of the guys who are on various first lines. It didn’t say he should be on the first line.

But you want him on the 3rd line.

You just said that people are saying he's top 6 not "first line". Thats false, the original post had him on the first line.

Aren't you supposed to be a lawyer? Shouldn't facts when arguing be important?

[cKy]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

You just said that people are saying he's top 6 not "first line". Thats false, the original post had him on the first line.

Aren't you supposed to be a lawyer? Shouldn't facts when arguing be important?

[SuperMatt18]

Posted this in the game thread but makes sense here too.

Mangiapane has produced as a top 30 forward in the NHL at 5v5 the last two seasons. Easily a top 6 forward and no team should have a concern if he's on your top line.

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Not at all. PP is dependent on opportunity, at 5V5 Mangiapane has been our best producing Forward over the last two seasons.

At 5V5 here is Mangiapane's team rank over the last two seasons:

TOI: 1561 (6th, 92nd in the NHL)

Goals: 28 (T-1st, T-24th in the NHL)

Assists: 25 (5th)
Primary Assists: 22 (2nd)
Second Assists: 3 (17th)

Points: 53 (4th - Tkachuk is 1st with 56)
Primary Points: 50 (1st, 28th in the NHL)

So yeah he's been the top player on this team at 5v5 the last two seasons. If not for abnormally low second assists he'd be leading the team in 5v5 points (His 3 secondary assists are the lowest of any player with over 50 5v5 points the last 2 seasons. Nordstrom has 4 and he's only been here this season).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

You just said that people are saying he's top 6 not "first line". Thats false, the original post had him on the first line.

Aren't you supposed to be a lawyer? Shouldn't facts when arguing be important?

People are saying he’s top 6. Sorry missed the OP which says “top line clip” production. As a lawyer I can tell you, “top line production” doesn’t = top line necessarily.

Anyway, Mangiapane could be a top line player on a lot of teams including good ones, just like Donskoi for example. He’s just not a guy that you build the top line around.

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Andrew Mangiapane's 5v5 ranks this season:

Goals: 13 (Flames: 1st, NHL: 25th)

Goals/60: 1.11 (Flames: 1st, NHL: 42nd)

Primary Assists: 11 (Flames: 1st, NHL: 28th)

Primary Assists/60: 0.94 (Flames: 1st, NHL: 42nd)

Points: 24 (Flames: 3rd, NHL: 63rd)

Points/60: 2.06 (Flames: 1st, NHL: 83rd)

ixG: 8.16 (Flames: 3rd, NHL: 82nd)

ixG/60: 0.7 (Flames: 5th, NHL: 108th)

iSCF: 97 (Flames: 2nd, NHL: 61st)

iSCF/60: 8.31 (Flames: 4th, NHL: 84th)

iHDCF: 48 (Flames: 2nd, NHL: 37th)

iHDCF/60: 4.11 (Flames: 2nd, NHL: 51st)



Mangiapane produces at a first line rate in every possible category you could imagine, including points/60 despite having 0 secondary assists on the season.

Not only that, Mangiapane dominates analytically and has among the best impacts both offensively AND defensively.

This last part isn't directed at you specifically because there's many people on this forum who still underrate Mangiapane, but I find it funny that even now there are still some people who grossly underrate how great of a player Mangiapane is.

- Produces goals at a first line rate
- Produces primary assists at a first line rate
- Produces points at a first line rate
- Dominates analytically
- Fantastic impacts offensively
- Fantastic impacts defensively

I mean, I guess you could say he falls a lot, but besides that, what more could you ask for?

Make that 14 goals and 25 points at 5v5, increasing his team lead in goals and tying the team lead in total points 5v5 (team leader in primary points)

#nottop6material

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Aren't you supposed to be a lawyer? Shouldn't facts when arguing be important?

Firstly, I don’t think he is supposed to be a lawyer, I am going out on a limb and say he is an actual lawyer.

And facts can be interpreted in many different ways. Especially by a lawyer. I believe that’s why they are so beloved.


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[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Firstly, I don’t think he is supposed to be a lawyer, I am going out on a limb and say he is an actual lawyer.

And facts can be interpreted in many different ways. Especially by a lawyer.


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It’s both. I’m supposed to be a lawyer. And, luckily, I am one. Otherwise I’d be breaking the law.

[dino7c]

Power play points do still count right? Or are we taking McDavids Hart back

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Power play points do still count right? Or are we taking McDavids Hart back

They do, but then you’ll just be raising a sore point of Mangiapane being on unit 2.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Power play points do still count right? Or are we taking McDavids Hart back

That’s generally a matter of usage.


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[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Power play points do still count right? Or are we taking McDavids Hart back

Well in the context of this discussion if you are looking at a player and where they fit on a line at 5v5, then doesn't it actually make more sense to look at how they produce at 5v5?

Also PP Points are also much more dependent on usage and the effectiveness of the whole PP unit.

[bax]

Mangiapane scored the same same amount of even strength goals as Point, Pastrnak, Stone, and Ovechkin this season