New Look Flames - Thoughts on the roster ahead of camp

[FlamesAddiction]

Darryl Sutter is a great coach, probably one of the best of this generation, so this is not meant to take anything away from him. Every year one of his teams that had truly exceptional seasons, he also had extraordinary players in their primes. Iginla, Kiprusoff, Roenick, Chelios, Belfour, Kopiitar, Quick, Doughty (yeah he was really good at one point).

Sutter may have been the glue that brought everything together, but those teams had some of the best players in the league for their positions. I just don't see those types of players emerging on the Flames this season.

No coach can work miracles. They can only work with what they have. I really hope I am wrong.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

‘Team defence is only as strong as its weakest link’, with reference to Monahan. That is a flat statement that Monahan is so bad defensively that he will wreck the entire team's defence.

Okay, I guess you have a problem with reading comprehension. Did you see how I used the Monahan line. You know why I said Monahan line? because some people will call it the 3rd line and some the 2nd line. I expect it to be weaker defensively than the Backlund line, and the Lindholm line. The line would have 3 players(not one!), I expect the line to have Dube on it as well, which is a part of my estimation.

I just don't get why do you need to get upset over it? It is an opinion, I don't in any place position my thoughts as facts. You are welcome to disagree.

In addition, the Monahan line would be a line the opposition will try to exploit defensively. I hope they will be up to the task, because team defense is only as strong as it's weakest link.

Also, notice how I specifically say that I hope they will be up to the task defensively. As in I am hoping that they would be able to make the adjustments to fit Sutter's system. Furthermore, I know English is only my third language, but I specifically used THEY in that sentence, as in the whole line. If I was singling out Monahan I would've used HE.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Okay, I guess you have a problem with reading comprehension.

Insult in place of argument duly noted.

Furthermore, I know English is only my third language, but I specifically used THEY in that sentence, as in the whole line. If I was singling out Monahan I would've said HE.

You singled out ‘the Monahan line’, even though you don't know whether Monahan will be the 2nd or 3rd-line centre, or who any of his linemates will be. Nosirree, whichever line has Monahan on it is going to be the worst line defensively.

So you did, in fact, single out Monahan.

[Heavy Jack]

Can the regular season puck drop already? The bickering about the team and whether they will be good or not and the bickering around Monahan and whether he’s a has been (or even a never was) or is going to bounce back… it’s tiring and I just want to see results whatever they might be so we can have an indication of the direction we are headed.

I remain cautiously optimistic too that this year will be a surprise and the Flames will put forth a solid seasons effort but man it’s felt like eons for this season to get going.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Insult in place of argument duly noted.



You singled out ‘the Monahan line’, even though you don't know whether Monahan will be the 2nd or 3rd-line centre, or who any of his linemates will be. Nosirree, whichever line has Monahan on it is going to be the worst line defensively.

So you did, in fact, single out Monahan.

As an impartial observer in this discussion, your reading comprehension has not been very good.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Insult in place of argument duly noted.



You singled out ‘the Monahan line’, even though you don't know whether Monahan will be the 2nd or 3rd-line centre, or who any of his linemates will be. Nosirree, whichever line has Monahan on it is going to be the worst line defensively.

So you did, in fact, single out Monahan.

First of all it wasn't an insult, you just see what you want to see no matter how I try to explain it. I don't need to insult you as it will just take away from anything I am trying to say.

Yes, the line which has Monahan is the most likely to be the worst defensively among the top 3 lines. I only expect the 4th line to be used against the opposition's 4th line, so I don't account for them. The way I see it, the Flames currently have 3 centers for the top 3 lines. The centers are Lindholm, Backlund, and Monahan. Two are known to be very good two way players, one isn't. Even if you play Monahan with Mangiapane, and Coleman I would still expect the line to be weaker defensively than Lindholm's/Backlund's line because the center does a lot of the heavy lifting defensively.

Again I'm not saying Monahan is a bad player, or he is washed up. I am saying he is a significant downgrade defensively on either Backlund or Lindholm. That's why his line strikes me as a potential weak spot defensively.

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Can the regular season pick drop already? The bickering about the team and whether they will be good or not and the bickering around Monahan and whether he’s a has been (or even a never was) or is going to bounce back… it’s tiring and I just want to see results whatever they might be so we can have an indication of the direction we are headed.

I remain cautiously optimistic too that this year will be a surprise and the Flames will put forth a solid seasons effort but man it’s felt like eons for this season to get going.

Yeah, can't wait for puck drop. I am also not saying Monahan is washed up. I just got called out, so I tried to explain where I was coming from.

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Or, at this point, are you just tossing word salad to make it seem like unlimited pessimism is rational?

[GreenLantern2814]

The more I learn about the Flames’ roster, the more I don’t care for it.

[Phaneuf_Phan]

Finally, 2 tough guys on the D (was butter soft for too long)

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I’m aware. We are talking roles.

Not me, I wasn't talking about roles. I was talking about the quality of play from the back end. Without Gio's 26 minutes, the quality of play will suffer. I'm sure Zadorov will be solid in his own end blocking shots or punishing opposition forwards, but the vision, puck moving ability and offensive presence at the point won't be the same without #5.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

on paper, sure - but you have to factor in where they all are on their career curves

so I would say that it is more accurate to put it like this:

20Tanev-20Hanifin-20Gio-20Andersson > 20Tanev-20Hanifin-20Andersson-20Zadorov

however, I am not so certain that it applies when we change them all to 21. Hanifin is going to get a bigger role. It should be easy for Andersson to have a better year. Tanev will probably be in tough to be as good as last year. Gio is 38, so every year is a risk of completely falling off the table at this point. Zadorov is 26 and I think he is going to love Sutter hockey. So those things being the case, the following may well be true:

21Tanev-21Hanifin-21Andersson-21Zadorov > 20Tanev-20Hanifin-20Gio-20Andersson

because let's be honest, the 2020 defense wasn't great (other than Tanev)

Personally, I think Gio's age is overblown, Gio has never relied on his physical gifts to be an effective defensemen. It was his hockey IQ and exemplary work ethic that made him a great defenseman.

I did noticed a significant drop in Hanifin's game when he left Tanev and I noticed significantly improved play overall when Gio was slotted back at #1. Even at 38, I still think Gio > Hanifin. So, I'm still weary about slotting Hanifin back into the top pair.

For me it's pretty simple, Gio was this team's best overall defenseman and without a suitable replacement, the D core in my opinion has not improved which is a bad sign for a team that finished outside of the playoffs. I personally would've liked to see an upgrade in the top 4, not a downgrade.

But it is what it is. I'm not too pleased with the forward group either. So at this point, we can only hope that Darryl's stifling defensive system can make up for the shortfalls in the roster. I'm not holding my breath, but I'm also not giving up hope either.

[saillias]

This is the only optimistic spin I can put on things and something I haven't seen anyone else note yet -

Gaudreau, Tkachuk and Mangiapane are in contract years. Top 6 guys in their contract years are often motivated to put up great numbers. That should bode well for our scoring at least

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Not me, I wasn't talking about roles. I was talking about the quality of play from the back end. Without Gio's 26 minutes, the quality of play will suffer. I'm sure Zadorov will be solid in his own end blocking shots or punishing opposition forwards, but the vision, puck moving ability and offensive presence at the point won't be the same without #5.

Sure but lets not pretend that anyone thinks Zadorov is Gio’s replacement. The minutes will be reallocated, with Hanifin moving up. Hanifin’s 24. A year younger than Gio when Gio took his big step.

This was going to happen eventually.