09-13-2017, 12:35 PM
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#21
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Lifetime Suspension
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In the back of my mind I wonder if CSEC is purposely sabotaging things? Perhaps they want out. I agree with Nenshi, I don't see anything here that would create and impasse. I hope this is not the case.
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09-13-2017, 12:37 PM
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#22
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
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According to this information they don't seem that far apart as we were led to believe. There are still hurdles but the same type of hurdles that are par for the course in any arena/stadium negotiation with a city. Problem is that you have Nenshi making disparaging public comments without discussing with the Flames and now the Flames making disparaging public comments without discussing with the city. Sounds to me like both sides are failing miserably at the communications part of this negotiation or one or both parties are lying to us.
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09-13-2017, 12:44 PM
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#23
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Franchise Player
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I'm on a real 'billionaires need to be reminded their heads can go on spikes just the same as the rest of us' kick these days, and this news does nothing to change that.
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09-13-2017, 12:46 PM
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#24
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First Line Centre
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Anyone else getting the sense this is straight out of Bettman's negotiation playbook. We have seen these exact tactics with the players during two lockouts.
What this thing needs is a second deadline. The "current council" deadline expired this week, much like the start of the season deadline did a few years ago. Flames will come back around Christmas once the dust has settled and communicate that they have reviewed all options and they are going to take one more run at this and provided they can get a deal done by February 2018 with an arena ready by the start of season September 2020. The sides will come together around that deadline and either hammer out a deal, or we repeat the cycle after another window of no negotiation...
The only risk in this negotiation is that there are not the same hard deadlines as during an NHL season.
__________________
Go Flames Go
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09-13-2017, 12:47 PM
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#25
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Red Deer
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As disappointing as this is, if the rumour is true it's actually really encouraging. Given the veiled nonsense and overreaction all around from yesterday you would think they were at some basic level of deadlock.
Work out the logistics on how the city can see a return on their loan and move on. I know that's far more complex than I make it in that sentence, but as I said knowing they were this close is motivating.
I'll be interested to learn more about the details in the coming weeks/months.
__________________
"It's a great day for hockey."
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09-13-2017, 12:49 PM
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#26
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Franchise Player
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So this is purely for the arena? McMahon will continue to rot and decay and just generally be a ####hole?
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09-13-2017, 12:50 PM
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#27
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
So this is purely for the arena? McMahon will continue to rot and decay and just generally be a ####hole?
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well nobody wants to pay for a new one so yeah
__________________
GFG
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09-13-2017, 12:51 PM
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#28
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary
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Seems to me like they're a few inches apart. Problem is you have two bulls butting heads over a pea. I bet this gets done and the Flames have a new barn in 4 years. I think the city wants to squeeze every last inch of life left in the Dome before they let the Flames have their new arena.
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09-13-2017, 12:52 PM
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#29
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sureLoss
Shawn LoganVerified account @ShawnLogan403
Arena price tag proposed to be about $550 million. Cost break down loosely split a third apiece for city/owners/ticket surcharge #yyccc
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This would be disingenuous based on the rumors. Nenshi is proposing a whole lot less than 1/3. He's offering one-third, but then he wants it back. There's a American pejorative expression used to describe a person who gives a "gift" and later wants it back.
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09-13-2017, 12:53 PM
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#30
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
So this is purely for the arena? McMahon will continue to rot and decay and just generally be a ####hole?
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It seems clear the city views a McMahon redevelopment/fieldhouse proposal as a separate issue from the hockey rink.
Which is fine. They're wildly different projects with different potential public benefits. We're not trying to build a new outdoor stadium to attract more concerts.
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09-13-2017, 12:54 PM
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#31
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GullFoss
This would be disingenuous based on the rumors. Nenshi is proposing a whole lot less than 1/3. He's offering one-third, but then he wants it back. There's a American pejorative expression used to describe a person who gives a "gift" and later wants it back.
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It's not a gift, genius. It's an investment by taxpayers. Geez.
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09-13-2017, 12:54 PM
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#32
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GullFoss
There's a American pejorative expression used to describe a person who gives a "gift" and later wants it back.
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Investor?
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09-13-2017, 12:55 PM
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#33
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GullFoss
This would be disingenuous based on the rumors. Nenshi is proposing a whole lot less than 1/3. He's offering one-third, but then he wants it back. There's a American pejorative expression used to describe a person who gives a "gift" and later wants it back.
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A gift? We're not talking about 'Gifts' we're talking about a business. Businesses dont get 'Gifts.'
It isnt a 'Gift' its a low interest loan. You know the crucial thing about loans?
They have to get paid back.
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09-13-2017, 12:56 PM
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#34
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getbak
Investor?
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hahaha - well done.
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09-13-2017, 12:56 PM
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#35
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GullFoss
This would be disingenuous based on the rumors. Nenshi is proposing a whole lot less than 1/3. He's offering one-third, but then he wants it back. There's a American pejorative expression used to describe a person who gives a "gift" and later wants it back.
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Are the flames a charity? Why would the city be "gifting" them anything?
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09-13-2017, 12:57 PM
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#36
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GullFoss
This would be disingenuous based on the rumors. Nenshi is proposing a whole lot less than 1/3. He's offering one-third, but then he wants it back. There's a American pejorative expression used to describe a person who gives a "gift" and later wants it back.
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Interestingly enough....CSEC wants the same thing back from their investment.
The way I look at it...everyone fronts $600M at some ratio. All financiers first recover their initial investment. After the initial investment is recovered, the Flames get all remaining revenue, minus tax (which the city gets). If you cannot $600M over the life of the arena...build a $400M arena.
That is a fair deal between partners. The only items to negotiate are the % risk that each side takes on.
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09-13-2017, 12:57 PM
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#37
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
A gift? We're not talking about 'Gifts' we're talking about a business. Businesses dont get 'Gifts.'
It isnt a 'Gift' its a low interest loan. You know the crucial thing about loans?
They have to get paid back.
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Except conceptually, the flames aren't asking for a loan. They're asking for a financial contribution from the public at large in order to finance a piece of infrastructure that has a public benefit component.
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09-13-2017, 12:58 PM
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#38
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Lifetime Suspension
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So I'm going to need a refresher on how Nenshi shares blame with King and how "both sides" are at fault for this mess. Seems pretty one sided to me.
Ken King and company better change strategies before City Hall becomes the new Honda Center.
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09-13-2017, 12:58 PM
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#39
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Chicago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
A gift? We're not talking about 'Gifts' we're talking about a business. Businesses dont get 'Gifts.'
It isnt a 'Gift' its a low interest loan. You know the crucial thing about loans?
They have to get paid back.
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So describe it as a loan, with the city picking up the interest.
Accuracy is important
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09-13-2017, 01:00 PM
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#40
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce
So describe it as a loan, with the city picking up the interest.
Accuracy is important
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Exactly - Nenshi is saying the city offered to fund 1/3. Its actually only offered to fund about 1/9th.
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