03-01-2016, 02:36 PM
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#21
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root
By the way, there was a discussion in another thread about Hamilton (after Ferraro was ragging about him not getting 60 pts) which led to a discussion about how many Dmen actually hit 60 pts...
The answer (in recent years) is 2 to 4 per year, typically.
Brodie's current PPG now puts him on a 62 point pace
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Imagine the boost he would get if he were the go to guy on the powerplay, and if the powerplay didn't stink.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
Before you call me a pessimist or a downer, the Flames made me this way. Blame them.
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03-01-2016, 02:37 PM
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#22
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vancouver
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I wouldn't be surprised if he appeared on a few ballots. Love his game, but he's not at that top level just yet.
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03-01-2016, 02:37 PM
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#23
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFree
Anyone who is still having that conversation is out of date.
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Are they? Brodie's amazing but there's other amazing d-men in the league too. Saying he's top 10 easily may be a matter of underrating some of the other guys.
Doughty
Hedman
Keith
Josi
Karlsson
Burns
Weber
Subban
Ekman-Larsson
Giordano
Klingberg
Letang
Brodie
Barrie
Suter
Byfuglien
McDonagh
Ekblad
Pietrangelo
Seabrook
Which of those are the top 10 in the league? It's not so simple a list to make IMO. I think Brodie is easily in the conversation. Is he easily in the top 10? It's an interesting discussion that is very relevant to this thread. You believe he is, convince us!
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03-01-2016, 02:37 PM
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#24
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: STH since 2002
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Karlsson should be a lock for the Norris this year. That being said Johnny made him look like a chump.
That's just how slick #13 is.
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03-01-2016, 02:40 PM
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#25
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Golden
Karlsson should be a lock for the Norris this year.
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No he shouldn't.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
Before you call me a pessimist or a downer, the Flames made me this way. Blame them.
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03-01-2016, 02:42 PM
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#26
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Franchise Player
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I love Brodie and think he's the Flames' best player (even better then JG). But anyone who thinks he'll be getting a sniff of the Norris trophy this season has a serious case of the Homer Simpsons going on.
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03-01-2016, 02:42 PM
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#27
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Franchise Player
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Brodie is fantastic- deserves to be on the World Cup squad. Not a Norris candidate right now IMO. Still too many better all around defensemen, starting with Drew Doughty.
As Flames fans, we need to be asking why the team is not more dominant when he and Gio are on the ice together.
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03-01-2016, 02:44 PM
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#28
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Golden
Karlsson should be a lock for the Norris this year.
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Disagree. He's the best offenseman but far from being anywhere near the best overall defenseman. Plenty of guys you'd take over him if you want to win the Cup.
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03-01-2016, 02:48 PM
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#29
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason14h
Yeah it's very hard to award the best D award to a team with the most goals given up.
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3rd worst, actually. Who is behind them? Arizona, Columbus, and... Ottawa.
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03-01-2016, 02:48 PM
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#30
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Could Care Less
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codynw
No he shouldn't.
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He shouldn't be but he is.
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03-01-2016, 02:55 PM
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#31
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Franchise Player
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Nope. It's going to be Karlsson and it should be Karlsson. The notion that Karlsson is some sort of defensive liability is laughable.
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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03-01-2016, 02:58 PM
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#32
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Flame Country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
Nope. It's going to be Karlsson and it should be Karlsson. The notion that Karlsson is some sort of defensive liability is laughable.
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It's going to be Karlsson because of his offensive game, not because of his defensive game. That's what fans have an issue with and why the Norris is a joke.
He's scoring all these points and his team is absolute trash that can't win games.
Doughty scores less but his team is great and he's one of the most valuable parts of the team alongside the goalie and #1 center. Yet he's only been nominated for the Norris trophy one time.
I think 95% of educated hockey fans would take Doughty over Karlsson.
Last edited by Bandwagon In Flames; 03-01-2016 at 03:00 PM.
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03-01-2016, 03:02 PM
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#33
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
Nope. It's going to be Karlsson and it should be Karlsson. The notion that Karlsson is some sort of defensive liability is laughable.
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There is a huge gap between someone saying he is a liability and saying he doesn't deserve the trophy for best all around defenseman
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03-01-2016, 03:03 PM
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#34
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames
It's going to be Karlsson because of his offensive game, not because of his defensive game. That's what fans have an issue with and why the Norris is a joke.
He's scoring all these points and his team is absolute trash that can't win games.
Doughty scores less but his team is great and he's one of the most valuable parts of the team alongside the goalie and #1 center. Yet he's only been nominated for the Norris trophy one time.
I think 95% of educated hockey fans would take Doughty over Karlsson.
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I would doubt that.
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03-01-2016, 03:07 PM
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#35
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames
It's going to be Karlsson because of his offensive game, not because of his defensive game. That's what fans have an issue with and why the Norris is a joke.
He's scoring all these points and his team is absolute trash that can't win games.
Doughty scores less but his team is great and he's one of the most valuable parts of the team alongside the goalie and #1 center. Yet he's only been nominated for the Norris trophy one time.
I think 95% of educated hockey fans would take Doughty over Karlsson.
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I'll take Karlson. Doughty's come in the league every 3-5 years. Karlson's come into the league every decade or two.
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03-01-2016, 03:09 PM
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#36
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
Nope. It's going to be Karlsson and it should be Karlsson. The notion that Karlsson is some sort of defensive liability is laughable.
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start laughing because he often costs his team goals against...he is not horrible but he is also not good defensively
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03-01-2016, 03:09 PM
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#37
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames
I think 95% of educated hockey fans would take Doughty over Karlsson.
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I'm not sure what you mean by educated, but nope.
He's going to win it for offense, but the best d-man in the league is the guy who most contributes to his team outscoring the opposition when he's on the ice. In the NHL right now, that's Karlsson.
Even if you could justify Doughty being significantly better at preventing goals (which there is no good evidence for), the offensive production gap - Karlsson's ability to generate offense for his team - completely dwarfs any defensive difference you could come up with.
Drew Doughty is a fantastic defenseman. Erik Karlsson has a chance to be the best offensive defenseman since Orr, and even though that's the primary part of his game, he's no slouch at keeping the other guys off the scoreboard, either, for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with his ability to bodycheck people.
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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03-01-2016, 03:09 PM
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#38
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Disagree. He's the best offenseman but far from being anywhere near the best overall defenseman. Plenty of guys you'd take over him if you want to win the Cup.
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That's a good assessment of Karlsson, but "a defenseman best suited for a team to want the defenseman on their team to help the team win the Stanley Cup" isn't the Norris criteria either.
I'd prefer to see more all-around defensemen like Doughty or Kieth or even Ekblad to be considered, but Karlsson is probably the frontrunner based solely on his scoring prowess this season. It's not necessarily right, but realistically that's probably how things shake out at the moment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZedMan
3rd worst, actually. Who is behind them? Arizona, Columbus, and... Ottawa.
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Heading into tonight's games, the Flames have allowed more total goals and more goals per game than the Senators.
Last edited by Finger Cookin; 03-01-2016 at 03:17 PM.
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03-01-2016, 03:11 PM
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#39
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Are they? Brodie's amazing but there's other amazing d-men in the league too. Saying he's top 10 easily may be a matter of underrating some of the other guys.
Doughty
Hedman
Keith
Josi
Karlsson
Burns
Weber
Subban
Ekman-Larsson
Giordano
Klingberg
Letang
Brodie
Barrie
Suter
Byfuglien
McDonagh
Ekblad
Pietrangelo
Seabrook
Which of those are the top 10 in the league? It's not so simple a list to make IMO. I think Brodie is easily in the conversation. Is he easily in the top 10? It's an interesting discussion that is very relevant to this thread. You believe he is, convince us! |
Factoring in contract status is the only way I would have Brodie top 10, all things considered I still think he is a sure fire top 20 Dman in the world
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03-01-2016, 03:11 PM
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#40
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertGQ
I'll take Karlson. Doughty's come in the league every 3-5 years. Karlson's come into the league every decade or two.
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LA wouldn't trade Doughty for Karlson
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