The Legend of Sam Bennett

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by New Era

Big whoop. Did you see the players he's tied with for the record? A regular who's who of "who the #### is that?" Scoring in the QMJHL is not like scoring in the pro ranks. It rarely translates. The deck is already stacked against Francis because of his size, and now with Sutter behind the bench, the deck was just cut in half. He was a low ranked prospect before Sutter, and with the arrival of the new coach, he takes another hit. Small players are going to see their opportunities limited. You can only have so many small players on your roster and the Flames have just too many small to tiny prospects. Expect a change in drafting and signings to align with Sutter hockey.

We all agree the bolded is a bad thing, right?

When Sutter was in charge of the Flames' selections, they were one of the worst drafting teams in the NHL. Really don't think that's an amateur scouting philosophy I'd be eager for Calgary to adopt again.

[868904]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

We all agree the bolded is a bad thing, right?

When Sutter was in charge of the Flames' selections, they were one of the worst drafting teams in the NHL. Really don't think that's an amateur scouting philosophy I'd be eager for Calgary to adopt again.

I'm not sure why some of you are even worrying about this. Don't buy into the fear mongering.

First of all, Darryl Sutter is not GM. Do you think Darryl wanted Bennett traded? No, that was Treliving doing something that didn't benefit Sutter. Trading Rittich also doesn't benefit Sutter cause now he has to play Markstrom every night or put an AHL goalie in.

Secondly, Darryl is signed for 2 years after this. Do you really think this GM or a new GM is going to change his philosophy for a coach who most likely won't even be around when most of these players turn pro, let alone become impact players?

By the time Ryan Francis turns pro, Darryl will be gone.

Matthew Phillips is probably the only prospect that Darryl will impact negatively. But Phillips has to get his game together first, he needs to put up numbers, at least a point per game and he's got to do it all season long, not just in spurts. He isn't knocking on the door right now; 16 points in 22 games is no where near good enough for a guy that small. Flames have no reason to call him up and force Sutter's hand. If he continues to play well this year and next, and Gaudreau is gone next season, I think there might be room for him in the top six as I expect the bottom six to get much bigger through trades and signings, but again, its' on Phillips to take that step and dominate the AHL and force his way to the NHL.

Pettersen and Zavgorodny will need at least two more seasons in the AHL after this. Again, Darryl will be long gone before those two are ready.

On a side note, I wouldn't be shocked if Pelletier, who is a small player, makes the team next year and becomes a Sutter favourite. He just wreaks of a Darryl type of player.

Darryl will be gone when his contract is up. He will either have won a cup or failed and left. I don't think he's here beyond that. Like he said, he came here to win a cup, not go through a rebuild.

[Flames1217]

Originally Posted by Jore

Hopefully they let him try playing centre if they sign him instead of moving him to wing

I have seen Francis play a good few times live. Obviously this was last year and the year before though.

Francis will more than likely end up a winger. There are certain advantages to this and one big disadvantage.

First off, if you haven't had the chance to watch Francis he plays a bit like Mangiapane. He hounds the puck and is a hassle. His skating is not bad but it is choppy. He is pretty good along the boards for his size and falls alot less than Mangiapane hahaha. He is more of a playmaker but does have a very good shot.

I question his strength when it comes to playing centre. He does play with a low sense of gravity and does protect the puck well but playing in the Q and the NHL are two different things. He is not a perimeter player at all, he attacks from the middle of the ice. In the NHL at his size he is going to run into some problems with this.

The major disadvantage to playing Francis on the wing is that you somewhat take away his backhand. Francis often sets up the play off his backhand and will lose this possibility unless he plays on his off wing.

If he can continue to build his strength (he is already very strong for his size) but at the same time work on his speed he might be able to do it but honestly I think he ends up a RH LW.

[Jore]

Originally Posted by Flames1217

I have seen Francis play a good few times live. Obviously this was last year and the year before though.

Francis will more than likely end up a winger. There are certain advantages to this and one big disadvantage.

First off, if you haven't had the chance to watch Francis he plays a bit like Mangiapane. He hounds the puck and is a hassle. His skating is not bad but it is choppy. He is pretty good along the boards for his size and falls alot less than Mangiapane hahaha. He is more of a playmaker but does have a very good shot.

I question his strength when it comes to playing centre. He does play with a low sense of gravity and does protect the puck well but playing in the Q and the NHL are two different things. He is not a perimeter player at all, he attacks from the middle of the ice. In the NHL at his size he is going to run into some problems with this.

The major disadvantage to playing Francis on the wing is that you somewhat take away his backhand. Francis often sets up the play off his backhand and will lose this possibility unless he plays on his off wing.

If he can continue to build his strength (he is already very strong for his size) but at the same time work on his speed he might be able to do it but honestly I think he ends up a RH LW.

Thanks for sharing that first-hand info. I've only seen his highlights this year, but from what I've seen and what you're describing he sounds a lot like Point after his draft year, especially the drive the centre of the ice mentality and the skating and strength issues. Point had clunky mechanics but improved his skating drastically with work with skating coaches that the Lightning put him in touch with, hopefully Francis can undergo similar improvements.

Generally it seems like there's a pattern of W/C players becoming W full time (e.g. Pettersen, Pelletier). This might be a more general trend in the league but Zegras is one high profile player where the Kings are intentionally trying him out at C as part of his development process. With the Flames' lack of C depth I hope they give Francis a fair shot when the time comes and evaluate the advantages and disadvantages then

[Enoch Root]

Suggesting the prospect rankings should change because Sutter is the coach, is pretty asinine. Referring to Francis specifically, he is 19, and will be 21 when Sutter's tenure is over. So even if you buy into the 'Sutter likes size' over-simplicity, it is irrelevant for these players. As a 5th round pick, Francis' window of potentially making it to the NHL was never going to be open before him being 21 at a minimum. Thoughtless, biased, tripe.

As for Heineman, one guy ranked him 16th on the FLA list, and people are taking it as gospel. As a couple posters have pointed out, there is some serious disagreement with that, and others have him significantly higher. Based on his size, speed, and production so far, he has a legitimate shot at making it to the NHL. That makes him a quality prospect, regardless of where some random guy placed him on a list.

IMO, he probably slots somewhere in the 5-10 range for the Flames. Obviously behind top level prospects like Zary, Pelletier, Mackey and Wolf, but somewhere within the next tier, with guys like Kusnetsov, Poirier, Ruzicka, etc

[Lanny_McDonald]

Prospect rankings are based on their likelihood of making it to the NHL and playing for the team. If the coach is focused on a particular style of play, players that play that style or most likely to reach the NHL. If the coach focuses on size and the the organization follows that lead, the small prospects chances are greatly diminished. Only a fool would ignore that reality and not recognize the ramifications for players in the system. If this were not the case, then Matthew Phillips would have got the call long before Adam Ruzicka. Size matters.

[cannon7]

Agree that Sutter will likely like Pelletier and Zary. Will likely be patient with Ruzicka as well.

[Strange Brew]

I'm not so positive that Sutter is only coach for another two seasons. Let's see how the club does under him. A strong season next year and maybe he gets extended for another two years to try and finish the job.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Suggesting the prospect rankings should change because Sutter is the coach, is pretty asinine. Referring to Francis specifically, he is 19, and will be 21 when Sutter's tenure is over. So even if you buy into the 'Sutter likes size' over-simplicity, it is irrelevant for these players. As a 5th round pick, Francis' window of potentially making it to the NHL was never going to be open before him being 21 at a minimum. Thoughtless, biased, tripe.

As for Heineman, one guy ranked him 16th on the FLA list, and people are taking it as gospel. As a couple posters have pointed out, there is some serious disagreement with that, and others have him significantly higher. Based on his size, speed, and production so far, he has a legitimate shot at making it to the NHL. That makes him a quality prospect, regardless of where some random guy placed him on a list.

IMO, he probably slots somewhere in the 5-10 range for the Flames. Obviously behind top level prospects like Zary, Pelletier, Mackey and Wolf, but somewhere within the next tier, with guys like Kusnetsov, Poirier, Ruzicka, etc

I think the Panthers had the best 2020 draft out of every team in the league, so the fact that this scouting staff was dialed in and ranked Heineman so highly to take him at 43 is super encouraging.

Plus our scouting in Sweden has been pure trash so might as well rely on someone else’s

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by New Era

Prospect rankings are based on their likelihood of making it to the NHL and playing for the team. If the coach is focused on a particular style of play, players that play that style or most likely to reach the NHL. If the coach focuses on size and the the organization follows that lead, the small prospects chances are greatly diminished. Only a fool would ignore that reality and not recognize the ramifications for players in the system. If this were not the case, then Matthew Phillips would have got the call long before Adam Ruzicka. Size matters.

I’m not sure the prospect rankings are as monolithicly based purely on likelihood of making the NHL versus some which look to impact once there.

BTW, Sutter prizes size, but he also likes speed. And while he likes size he generally means from a team perspective. It doesn’t mean every single player is big - just that the team is generally big and fast.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I’m not sure the prospect rankings are as monolithicly based purely on likelihood of making the NHL versus some which look to impact once there.

BTW, Sutter prizes size, but he also likes speed. And while he likes size he generally means from a team perspective. It doesn’t mean every single player is big - just that the team is generally big and fast.

Who was the smallest player Sutter had on his teams? I'll save you the time.

Calgary Flames 2003-04 - Andrew Ference 5'11, 182
Calgary Flames 2005-06 - Daymond Lankow, 5'10 181
Calgary Flames 2006-07 - Daymond Lankow, 5'10 181
Los Angeles Kings 2011-12 - Scott Parse, 5'11 189
Los Angeles Kings 2012-13 - Mike Richards, 5'11 196
Los Angeles Kings 2013-14 - Mike Richards, 5'11 196
Los Angeles Kings 2014-15 - David Van der Guilk, 5'10 173
Los Angeles Kings 2015-16 - Kris Versteeg, 5'11, 176
Los Angeles Kings 2016-17 - Tyler Tyfolli 6,0 198

This is the smallest team that Sutter has ever coached. It's going to get bigger.

[btimbit]

I wanted to find out what Panthers fans think of the trade but every hockey forum I go to, there isn't any.

Panthers reddit page on it is all Flames fans stopping by to say they'll miss him

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by New Era

Who was the smallest player Sutter had on his teams? I'll save you the time.

Calgary Flames 2003-04 - Andrew Ference 5'11, 182
Calgary Flames 2005-06 - Daymond Lankow, 5'10 181
Calgary Flames 2006-07 - Daymond Lankow, 5'10 181
Los Angeles Kings 2011-12 - Scott Parse, 5'11 189
Los Angeles Kings 2012-13 - Mike Richards, 5'11 196
Los Angeles Kings 2013-14 - Mike Richards, 5'11 196
Los Angeles Kings 2014-15 - David Van der Guilk, 5'10 173
Los Angeles Kings 2015-16 - Kris Versteeg, 5'11, 176
Los Angeles Kings 2016-17 - Tyler Tyfolli 6,0 198

This is the smallest team that Sutter has ever coached. It's going to get bigger.

Again, that says nothing about the average of the team. For example, not only did the 2005 Flames have Langkow, they also had Ference, Ritchie, Lombardi, Kobasew, etc, all of whom are under the average NHL size. And the D wasn't exactly monstrous - Phaneuf Reg and Hulse were big but the rest are all under 6'1". What they were, though was aggressive - they had Warrener, Marchment, Ference were not shy D.

Also, seeing as how Sutter is only the coach and not GM, you've left out a couple teams. And, accordingly, guys like Denis Savard, Christian Ruutu, Tony Granato, etc.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I wanted to find out what Panthers fans think of the trade but every hockey forum I go to, there isn't any.

Panthers reddit page on it is all Flames fans stopping by to say they'll miss him

Damn! If Bennett ever run for mayor in Calgary, he'd probably become the greatest mayor this city ever had! I guess me and New Era weren't hypnotized by Bennett's charm.

[McG]

Stopped by to update the usual “we got the guy we wanted at the draft position we got him at; he was always our guy” with the new one, “we tried to draft the guy we just got in a trade”.

I don’t have any opinion on the player himself as I have never seen him play, but it seems to me that this is the new fan favour.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I wanted to find out what Panthers fans think of the trade but every hockey forum I go to, there isn't any.

Panthers reddit page on it is all Flames fans stopping by to say they'll miss him

HF Panthers has a few posters... also, litterboxcats has a little bit too

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by CSharp

Damn! If Bennett ever run for mayor in Calgary, he'd probably become the greatest mayor this city ever had! I guess me and New Era weren't hypnotized by Bennett's charm.

I don't get it

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by McG

Stopped by to update the usual “we got the guy we wanted at the draft position we got him at; he was always our guy” with the new one, “we tried to draft the guy we just got in a trade”.

I don’t have any opinion on the player himself as I have never seen him play, but it seems to me that this is the new fan favour.

The newest and shiniest toy.

Craig Conroy likens him to Zach Hyman (yes, that Craig Conroy, who loved Sven Baertschi’s compete)

Straight to the top 5 of the prospects!

Hopefully he works out.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I wanted to find out what Panthers fans think of the trade but every hockey forum I go to, there isn't any.

Panthers reddit page on it is all Flames fans stopping by to say they'll miss him

Weird. I read ten pages about the trade yesterday on the Panthers HF page.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Weird. I read ten pages about the trade yesterday on the Panthers HF page.

Didn't think to check HF since I was mostly looking for what adults had to say.

but screw it, lets go check out what the Kindergarteners think of the trade