2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Mitch

People are way overvaluing Hanifan. He is exceptionally mediocre.

Noah Hanifin is a 23 year old top-4 defenceman.

Ondrej Kase is a 25 year old third line forward.

One is significantly more valuable than the other.

The three defencemen the Flames protect come expansion time is Giordano, Andersson, and Hanifin. Tanev definitely gets exposed.

[Geeoff]

I like the idea of acquiring Kase but I don't think it would cost Hanifin.


Maybe Derek Ryan to even out the salary and then some picks? Boston gave up a 1st for him but also dumped a huge, bad contract. So he's probably more worth a 2nd?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I don’t think you’re getting my point. If you trade one LD, then you’re down one. But if you’re getting one back, then it’s a wash. The Flames have 4 legit defensemen they’ll have to expose by the end of the season, if the Flames keep Hanifin, then they’ll likely lose him for nothing in the expansion draft in July.

Is that scenario better than to lose him for this season, but pick up one or two expansion protected blue chip prospects who you can keep for years/decades? I’m not saying the Flames should definitely go this route. But it’s certainly something Treliving has to explore for asset management purposes.

Your premise is that Hanifin won't be protected. I think that is false.

1) Andersson
2) Hanifin
3) Giordano

If Kylington somehow turns into a stud, he could replace Gio, but there is almost 0% chance of that happening.

Tanev gets exposed because Tanev will be 31 years old, and has a market-price contract. If you lose him, you go pay another, similar free agent the same money.

You don't let a 24 year old defenseman with Hanifin's potential go.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I don’t think you’re getting my point. If you trade one LD, then you’re down one. But if you’re getting one back, then it’s a wash. The Flames have 4 legit defensemen they’ll have to expose by the end of the season, if the Flames keep Hanifin, then they’ll likely lose him for nothing in the expansion draft in July.

Is that scenario better than to lose him for this season, but pick up one or two expansion protected blue chip prospects who you can keep for years/decades? I’m not saying the Flames should definitely go this route. But it’s certainly something Treliving has to explore for asset management purposes.

I understand what you said, i just disagree with the entire premise that we wouldn't protect Hanifin. I also reject the opinion that we require replacing a LD if we ship one out- we have too many LD, we definitely don't need to acquire another one in a theoretical Hanifin trade, even if it is "asset management". What you described is just wasting assets when we could expose a 38 year old Gio or Tanev...

Also Vaakainen isn't very good. Not good enough to play on our d this year, or in the next 3 unless I am way off base about our current stable of young lefthanded d men.

Edit: Should have read this page before replying! What he said ^^

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Your premise is that Hanifin won't be protected. I think that is false.

1) Andersson
2) Hanifin
3) Giordano

If Kylington somehow turns into a stud, he could replace Gio, but there is almost 0% chance of that happening.

Tanev gets exposed because Tanev will be 31 years old, and has a market-price contract. If you lose him, you go pay another, similar free agent the same money.

You don't let a 24 year old defenseman with Hanifin's potential go.

a. I think Chris Tanev will prove this coming season that he’s more valuable than Hanifin. Tanev is extremely mobile and can defend elite level players while providing big time leadership which this organization values. I think he ends up gettinf protected.

b. I also don’t think Mark Giordano is exposed in the expansion draft. The Flames have a history of being a classy organization and the idea of sending their Norris Trophy calibre, long time serving, community entrenched, heart and soul captain out the door to a future divisional rival just seems unthinkable.

c. Lastly, Hanifin may be 24 and may have perceived untapped potential based on his draft position. But he’s 5 years into his professional career and he hasn’t displayed a whole heck of a lot. I actually see more wrongs in his game than right and I’m talking about fundamental/foundational things that I’m not sure he can fix. I don’t think it’s a surprise we’ve been hearing his name in the trade rumors for a while now and I actually could see a scenario where Valimaki passes Hanifin at some point during the season.

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I don’t think you’re getting my point. If you trade one LD, then you’re down one. But if you’re getting one back, then it’s a wash. The Flames have 4 legit defensemen they’ll have to expose by the end of the season, if the Flames keep Hanifin, then they’ll likely lose him for nothing in the expansion draft in July.

Is that scenario better than to lose him for this season, but pick up one or two expansion protected blue chip prospects who you can keep for years/decades? I’m not saying the Flames should definitely go this route. But it’s certainly something Treliving has to explore for asset management purposes.

You think the Flames are protecting Tanev over Hanifin?

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

c. Lastly, Hanifin may be 24 and may have perceived untapped potential based on his draft position. But he’s 5 years into his professional career and he hasn’t displayed a whole heck of a lot. I actually see more wrongs in his game than right and I’m talking about fundamental/foundational things that I’m not sure he can fix. I don’t think it’s a surprise we’ve been hearing his name in the trade rumors for a while now and I actually could see a scenario where Valimaki passes Hanifin at some point during the season.

You argued last page for proper asset management, and yet point b puts sentiment ahead of proper asset management. Why?

This is the one i take most exception to though. What would Hanifin have to do to show you a heck of a lot? What are the objective thresholds?
2 seasons ago Hanifin was a 33 point +18 21 year old. Last year he had a bad year, along with 90% of our team. But he's only 23... And before you make another argument about no room to grow, Gio didn't even play in the NHL until he was 23. He has grown A LOT since then.

What are the objective statistical thresholds that would be "displaying a whole heck of a lot" for you?

He's the 2nd highest scoring D man from his draft class, behind Werenski. Chabot may pass him this year or in time, but also maybe not. I feel he brings better defense than Werenski does but I think that is debateable. Either way, this is a top 3 dman from his draft year and peer group. What more do you want?

[Lord Carnage]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

a. I think Chris Tanev will prove this coming season that he’s more valuable than Hanifin. Tanev is extremely mobile and can defend elite level players while providing big time leadership which this organization values. I think he ends up gettinf protected.

b. I also don’t think Mark Giordano is exposed in the expansion draft. The Flames have a history of being a classy organization and the idea of sending their Norris Trophy calibre, long time serving, community entrenched, heart and soul captain out the door to a future divisional rival just seems unthinkable.

c. Lastly, Hanifin may be 24 and may have perceived untapped potential based on his draft position. But he’s 5 years into his professional career and he hasn’t displayed a whole heck of a lot. I actually see more wrongs in his game than right and I’m talking about fundamental/foundational things that I’m not sure he can fix. I don’t think it’s a surprise we’ve been hearing his name in the trade rumors for a while now and I actually could see a scenario where Valimaki passes Hanifin at some point during the season.

The problem I have is that you think we are protecting Gio and Tanev with 2 of our roster spots.

If you really want to protect Tanev, it comes at the expense of Gio, not a 24yo top 4 defenseman.

Personally, I think the Flames will be shopping a little for that last protect D-man before the draft... someone another team won't want to lose and we can protect (instead of Tanev OR Gio).

and should Valimaki pass Hanifin, that's ok, but after next year(21-22) Gio is gone anyways, so your top 2 are Valamaki and Hanifin.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by BigErnSalute_16

You think the Flames are protecting Tanev over Hanifin?

I think there’s a good chance they do. Tanev brings a lot to the table. He’s obviously not as young as Hanifin is, but I find people put way too much emphasis on the age of the player. Age doesn’t make the player. Heck Hanifin is nearly 400 games into his career.

Maybe if Hanifin showed me more flashes of brilliance and impactful ability, I could maybe get behind that. Otherwise, like the one poster put it earlier, he’s exceptionally mediocre. Great skater, but really meh everywhere else and below average defensively. The value of his $5M cap hit just isn’t there for me.

[Enoch Root]

We shall see next offseason. But I think the chances of Tanev being protected over Hanifin are very remote. And i am a bigger Tanev fan than most on this board.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

You argued last page for proper asset management, and yet point b puts sentiment ahead of proper asset management. Why?

This is the one i take most exception to though. What would Hanifin have to do to show you a heck of a lot? What are the objective thresholds?
2 seasons ago Hanifin was a 33 point +18 21 year old. Last year he had a bad year, along with 90% of our team. But he's only 23... And before you make another argument about no room to grow, Gio didn't even play in the NHL until he was 23. He has grown A LOT since then.

What are the objective statistical thresholds that would be "displaying a whole heck of a lot" for you?

He's the 2nd highest scoring D man from his draft class, behind Werenski. Chabot may pass him this year or in time, but also maybe not. I feel he brings better defense than Werenski does but I think that is debateable. Either way, this is a top 3 dman from his draft year and peer group. What more do you want?

Because Gio and Tanev will be your team’s top shut down defensemen, that’s why. Foe me, I believe Hanifin has already been identified as the weak link on that top 4, thus why I could see the argument of trading him rather than losing him potentially for nothing. That’s the asset management piece I’m talking about. Ability still supersedes everything else as it should.

As for what he needs to display. His offensive game could stand to take a huge leap. He can skate, but he doesn’t have a lot of other dynamic traits. He keeps things simple for the most part, but 5 years into his career, his awareness is still extremely suspect. He makes a lot of bad reads, ill-advised pinches, he’s caught puck watching a lot, overplays too often, he's not difficult to play against along the boards and in front of the net, his offensive game is just ok and etc etc. To me, this is not $5M well spent and it’s a big reason why I think he could be on the trade block.

[Vinny01]

I think there is a significantly greater chance Tanev is this teams 6th Dman by the end of the year than he pushes himself ahead of Hanifin to be protected. I find it hard to see a situation where he pushes himself ahead of Gio but if he is still a top pair D and Gio drops off huge there is a chance

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnage

The problem I have is that you think we are protecting Gio and Tanev with 2 of our roster spots.

If you really want to protect Tanev, it comes at the expense of Gio, not a 24yo top 4 defenseman.

Personally, I think the Flames will be shopping a little for that last protect D-man before the draft... someone another team won't want to lose and we can protect (instead of Tanev OR Gio).

and should Valimaki pass Hanifin, that's ok, but after next year(21-22) Gio is gone anyways, so your top 2 are Valamaki and Hanifin.

I’ve already explained why I believe Gio and Tanev will be protected.

I’m curious as to why you believe Mark Giordano will be gone after 2022? Gio moved to Calgary and is a pillar in the community. I could see Treliving offering him a short, cheaper deal to stay and I think Gio would take it.

The great thing about Gio is, he has no ego, so he’d be willing to play anywhere in the line up and in any role. His game has always been predicated on his unparalleled work ethic and hockey smarts. So even if his legs and other physical traits erode a bit more, I think he will still be effective in a lot of areas of the game even into his 40s.

[Hackey]

There is no way Tanev gets protected over Hanifin unless something drastic happens over the next year. I'm not even a big Hanifin fan but he's young with top 4 potential. No way you give him away for nothing.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Hackey

There is no way Tanev gets protected over Hanifin unless something drastic happens over the next year. I'm not even a big Hanifin fan but he's young with top 4 potential. No way you give him away for nothing.

Hanafin is a young top 4, it isn't a potential thing. He's there.


Protecting Tanev would be border line insane and he likely signed knowing he may be in Seattle in a year's time. That said, I hope the Flames do it.

[SnipeShow]

I think it would benefit them to leave someone like Tanev exposed over Gio. Hes a bit older but has enough skill and value.

If you end up being forced to leave some decent forwards like eat bread or bennett unprotected who still have some upside, Tanev may be enticing enough to for them to take instead and shield the others. He seems like he has just enough value in a key position that seattle would pick him over those 2.

I'm sure a number of people wouldn't be upset to see that with the so many concerned over Tanev's last 2 years of his contract.

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[VilleN]

Yeah, IMO it’s a no brainer that Hanifin is protected over Tanev. Can’t really understand how a competent GM would protect Tanev over him... I think we lose Kylington in the expansion draft.

[AustinL_NHL]

No half-serious person in this thread is even teasing the idea of protecting Tanev over Hanifin...

I hope.

[SnipeShow]

I really don't think kylington is going to be taken unless we are throwing some extras their way to get them to. They are going to take one of Tanev or gio, or whichever of bennett, dube, or mang is left open before they look at kylington.

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[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by SnipeShow

I really don't think kylington is going to be taken unless we are throwing some extras their way to get them to. They are going to take one of Tanev or gio, or whichever of bennett, dube, or mang is left open before they look at kylington.

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My protection list is (if there’s no major changes to the roster between now and then):

Gaudreau
Tkachuk
Lindholm
Monahan
Dube
Bennett
Mangiapane

Hanifin
Andersson
Giordano

Markstrom

That leaves Backlund (3 years at $5.35M, 32 years old), Tanev (3 years at $4.5M, 31 years old) and Rittich (UFA) as the salary cap choices. Derek Ryan as a UFA could also be an affordable bottom 6 centre for Seattle. I think David Rittich is the guy we’re going to end up losing in the end as he’s going to be one of the best goalies to be exposed.

Exposing Backlund would be playing the age/salary cap game. I also see Bennett and Dube both further establishing themselves this coming season, and seeing age/contract status, that puts them ahead of Backlund. I also am not opposed to Tree using a draft pick or two to protect someone and have them pick something else, as I still think most of this roster is championship-quality, and I’d rather see Backlund retire a Flame one day.