It completley depends on the characters for me. One of the many, many things i love about ATLA is that the villians (Azula in particular) are as likeable as the heroes.
It completley depends on the characters for me. One of the many, many things i love about ATLA is that the villians (Azula in particular) are as likeable as the heroes.
Azula, from Abel's Tawdry Love Affair. You made me type things into a search engine to figure out what in the world you were talking about. I know that you believe that your actions were just, but you sir are a villain.
Alright, I just looked at my own avatar, and realized that I might be the villain. In that case, I am justified in my journey to bring order to humanity, and all of your 'heroes' can suck a lemon.
Last edited by Harry Lime; 10-24-2014 at 06:16 PM.
Reason: realized I named myself Harry Lime
Surprised there's no love for Patrick Bateman. A great example of a horrible character with likeable qualities (though maybe not a guy you cheer for per se).
IFor instance, my hands down favorite bad guy was the Joker in the Dark Knight. A big issue I find with many bad guys are they're broken and flawed pieces or just incomplete characters ("Shrouded in mystery"). Joker was a full character and you could relate to him. He was seemingly logical in what he did and it seemed to make sense what he was going for (Not an angry, let's destroy things because I'm angry persona).
Interesting analysis. Pretty much the opposite of what Joker is known for. He really has the least stable/known origin story and is therefore one of the biggest mysteries in the Batman mythology (and evidence by the multiple stories he told about how he got the scars in The Dark Knight). Logical also goes against what he's pretty much known for. He's not illogical per se, but he's not suppose to have a rhyme or reason, he's chaos.
In my opinion, he's one of the few villains who can get away with being a villain just for the sake of it. Don't know if I could say I relate to him either.
Interesting analysis. Pretty much the opposite of what Joker is known for. He really has the least stable/known origin story and is therefore one of the biggest mysteries in the Batman mythology (and evidence by the multiple stories he told about how he got the scars in The Dark Knight). Logical also goes against what he's pretty much known for. He's not illogical per se, but he's not suppose to have a rhyme or reason, he's chaos.
In my opinion, he's one of the few villains who can get away with being a villain just for the sake of it. Don't know if I could say I relate to him either.
I saw him as a character spawned to be a direct mirror of Batman. He is not necessarily the opposite of Batman, but a balance. Similar to Moriarty to Sherlock. If one is ying, the other must be yang There are huge differences, but many similarities as well. His history is irrelevant, only present and future is relevant. His chaos is logical because it is tied to the other character. Joker's sole goal is to mess with Batman. In a sense, there is a symbiosis of both Batman and Joker.
In terms of relating to him, the way I saw him was similar to the idea of Carl Jung's "Shadow" concept. It's hard for me to put it into words. Perhaps my interest is higher due to my interest in sociology. I don't relate to Joker based on what he does, I relate to him based on the philosophical ideas that revolve around him.
Quote:
We must acknowledge the darkness within us but not identify with it. When you don’t acknowledge the Shadow, what happens is that it breaks free, takes on a life of its won and comes back to terrorize you and shatter your “illusory superiority.”
The Joker: [speaking to Two-Face] Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I’m a dog chasing cars. I wouldn’t know what to do with one if I caught it! You know, I just, do things. The mob has plans, the cops have plans, Gordon’s got plans. You know, they’re schemers. Schemers trying to control their worlds. I’m not a schemer. I try to show the schemers how, pathetic, their attempts to control things really are. So, when I say, ah, come here, when I say that you and your girlfriend was nothing personal, you know that I’m telling the truth.
The Joker: It’s the schemers that put you where you are. You were a schemer, you had plans, and uh, look where that got you. I just did what I do best. I took your plan and I turned it on itself. Look what I did, to this city with a few drums of gas and a couple of bullets. Hm? You know what, you know what I noticed? Nobody panics when things go according to plan. Even if the plan is horrifying. If tomorrow I tell the press that like a gang banger, will get shot, or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up, nobody panics, because it’s all, part of the plan. But when I say that one, little old mayor will die, well then everyone loses their minds!
The Joker: [Joker hands Two-Face a gun and points it at himself] Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. I’m an agent of chaos. Oh and you know the thing about chaos, it’s fair.
[with the gun in Two-Face's hand, Two-Face pauses and takes out his coin]
Two-Face: [showing the unscarred side] You live.
The Joker: Mm-hm.
Two-Face: [flipping, showing the scarred side] You die.
The Joker: Mmm, Now we’re talking.
[with the gun in Two-Face's hand, the joker has the gun to his own forehead; Two-Face pauses and takes out his coin]
Two-Face: [showing the unscarred side] You live.
The Joker: Mm-hm.
Two-Face: [showing the scarred side] You die.
The Joker: Hm… Now we’re talkin!
OR
The Joker: This town deserves a better class of criminal… and I’m gonna give it to them. Tell your men they work for me now. This is *my* city.
The Chechen: They won’t work for a freak…
The Joker: [mocking his accent] A freak…
[pulls out his switchblade and tosses it to some goons who grabs the Chechen]
The Joker: Why don’t we cut you up into little pieces and feed you to your pooches? Hmm? And then we’ll see how loyal a hungry dog really is. It’s not about money… it’s about… sending a message. Everything burns.
OR
Batman: Then why do you want to kill me?
The Joker: [giggling] I don't, I don't want to kill you! What would I do without you? Go back to ripping off mob dealers? No, no, NO! No. You... you... complete me.
Batman: You're garbage who kills for money.
The Joker: Don't talk like one of them. You're not! Even if you'd like to be. To them, you're just a freak, like me! They need you right now, but when they don't, they'll cast you out, like a leper! You see, their morals, their code, it's a bad joke. Dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these... these civilized people, they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve.
Part of me has always wished for an origins story for the Dark Knight Joker, because I think it would be fascinating. He does to an extent have a moral code and that moral code is to have no moral code at all.
The scars and his masked appearance tells me that he was someone that was either abused or destroyed in his previous life and put on the clown makeup so that he could hide his own true self from his own original moral center. In other words it gave him permission to become a agent of chaos.
I always through that the Joker wasn't a failed comedian or a devastated mob enforcer. I felt that this Joker was someone that was an academic, a sociology student or a psychology student who saw the world as his own lab and thus wanted to prove a theory about the lowness of humanity. Thus all of the testing.
He's basically a scientist who sees the world as his personal frog or puppy in a lab setting.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
I recall that when I was a kid, I was always frustrated that the good guys were always winning. I wanted Cobra Commander to conquer the world, I wanted the Decepticons to destroy the Autobots, I wanted the Care Bears to learn the true meaning of hardship and suffering.
I think that's a byproduct however, of toy companies making the baddies appealing and interesting in order to sell toys. It's partly why so many people are attracted to the Patrick Bateman and Walter White characters. The writers manage to make them appealing and relatable and even sympathetic.
I recall that when I was a kid, I was always frustrated that the good guys were always winning. I wanted Cobra Commander to conquer the world, I wanted the Decepticons to destroy the Autobots, I wanted the Care Bears to learn the true meaning of hardship and suffering.
I think that's a byproduct however, of toy companies making the baddies appealing and interesting in order to sell toys. It's partly why so many people are attracted to the Patrick Bateman and Walter White characters. The writers manage to make them appealing and relatable and even sympathetic.
If you look at any character design for some reason the villain is always cooler.
I mean lets look at it from the perspective
vs
vs
I rest my case
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
